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 What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island

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slaveforpizzaandsushi

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  • Location: ontario, XX
What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Tue, 01/22/13 10:49 AM (permalink)
I believe in this case, the chili dog has no beans in it. 
Does anyone have any definitive answers on this. 
Does a chili dog have tex mex seasonings. 
 
Help.
 
#1
    ScreamingChicken

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    Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Tue, 01/22/13 10:57 AM (permalink)
    Around here it's usually the other way around...sometimes.  A coney dog will never have beans ("coney sauce") while a chili dog might or might not.
     
    #2
      badbyron722

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      Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Tue, 01/22/13 12:51 PM (permalink)
      Lived in the South for 50 years,never had a chilli dog with beans.
       
      #3
        buffetbuster

        Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Tue, 01/22/13 12:55 PM (permalink)
        Here is a previous thread on the same subject where even hot dog experts Michael Stern and John Fox weigh in with their opinions.
         
        #4
          TJ Jackson

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          Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Tue, 01/22/13 1:10 PM (permalink)
          I make no claims for elsewhere
           
          but
           
          with Cincinnati-style chili, those two mean the same thing.  That said, one does not typically ask for a "coney island" or a "chili dog" at a Cincinnati-style chili parlor - although either would be understood - they ask for a "coney", and more commonly still - a "cheese coney", which is a coney topped with shredded mild cheddar
          <message edited by TJ Jackson on Tue, 01/22/13 1:20 PM>
           
          #5
            Russ Jackson

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            Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Tue, 01/22/13 2:12 PM (permalink)
            The great question. slaveforsushi a quick trip across the Ambassador Bridge will bring you to the town that the Great and Almighty Coney was invented. For Detroit was its birth place. Lafayette Coney and American claim to be the originators but common knowledge says it came from the Greeks that immigrated there.
             
            IMO: They would never include beans. Here you will find several recipes for the concoction: http://www.roadfood.com/F...ce-Recipe-m114580.aspx
             
            There are a lot of differences between Flint, Cincy, and Detroit. It appears to start off with something like the Detroit version but changes were made along the way. Coney sauce is thinner than the others and has less of the ground beef texture.
             
            ...Russ
             
            #6
              RedJim64

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              Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sat, 02/16/13 4:12 PM (permalink)
              The Detroit Coney Island hot dog is made unique by the chili sauce it's topped with. (Its not any old beanless chili). The sauce is almost always made daily in the restaurant and has beef organ meats finely diced into the ground beef base.
               
              The five, or six, or dozen, premier coney places in metro Detroit add "proprietary" spice mixes to the sauce; with water, tomato paste and...
               
              An authentic Coney Island is always an encased weiner.
               
              Hope that helps your understanding. 
                  
               
              #7
                ChrisOC

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                Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sat, 02/16/13 7:59 PM (permalink)
                RedJim64


                The Detroit Coney Island hot dog is made unique by the chili sauce it's topped with. (Its not any old beanless chili). The sauce is almost always made daily in the restaurant and has beef organ meats finely diced into the ground beef base.

                The five, or six, or dozen, premier coney places in metro Detroit add "proprietary" spice mixes to the sauce; with water, tomato paste and...

                An authentic Coney Island is always an encased weiner.

                Hope that helps your understanding. 
                   

                Perhaps for the newcomers we should discuss the difference between a weiner and a hot dog.
                <message edited by ChrisOC on Sat, 02/16/13 8:01 PM>
                 
                #8
                  1bbqboy

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                  Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sat, 02/16/13 9:10 PM (permalink)
                  I'm no newcomer, but what IS the difference?
                   
                  #9
                    RedJim64

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                    Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sun, 02/17/13 8:10 AM (permalink)
                    1bbqboy...
                     
                    My understanding is that there are only two types of hot dogs: weiners and frankfurters. A weiner is always an all beef sausage. A frankfurter is a blend of ground pork and beef. The weiner sausage originated in the region around Vienna, Austria; the frankfurter, in Frankfurt, Germany. Of course, how each sausage is spiced makes it unique to the butcher.
                     
                    And I think both sausages must have a membrane casing.
                     
                    The distinction between the two sausages probably got very muddy when "hot dogs" started to become popular in the USA.   
                     
                    #10
                      Ed Face

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                      • Location: Rochester, NY
                      Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sun, 02/17/13 1:51 PM (permalink)
                      Here in Rochester we have red or white "Hots" In nearby Stracuse they have red "Franks" & white "Coneys". In Rochester chili on a Hot is called hot sauce (no beans), in Syracuse they call it chili. Whatever you call them they are swell. I don't care what you call them, just shut up and EAT. 
                       
                      #11
                        RedJim64

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                        Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sun, 02/17/13 6:07 PM (permalink)
                        So, Ed, What's a Michigan up there?
                         
                        #12
                          Foodbme

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                          Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sun, 02/17/13 8:11 PM (permalink)
                          There's 41 posts on the other thread that Buffetbuster mentions.
                          Could a Moderator please merge these 2 threads?
                           
                          #13
                            chicagostyledog

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                            Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sun, 02/17/13 8:49 PM (permalink)
                            RedJim64


                            1bbqboy...

                            My understanding is that there are only two types of hot dogs: weiners and frankfurters. A weiner is always an all beef sausage. A frankfurter is a blend of ground pork and beef. The weiner sausage originated in the region around Vienna, Austria; the frankfurter, in Frankfurt, Germany. Of course, how each sausage is spiced makes it unique to the butcher.

                            And I think both sausages must have a membrane casing.

                            The distinction between the two sausages probably got very muddy when "hot dogs" started to become popular in the USA.   

                            The Vienna Sausage Manufacturing Company arrived in Chicago in 1893 with two sausage makers from Austria and Hungary that set up shop on Halsted and Maxwell. Vienna Beef makes all beef hot dogs and Polish, both natural casing and skinless, known as franks, not wieners.
                            CSD
                            Hot Dog University/Vienna Beef
                             
                            #14
                              Russ Jackson

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                              Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Mon, 02/18/13 7:59 AM (permalink)
                              I cannot recall ever getting a Coney in Michigan where the Hot Dog was not a natural casing. You will never have beans in Coney Sauce. Koegels and Kowalski are used for just about all. I have never seen a Vienna in Michigan. Even a Chicago Style Dog tastes better with a Koegel. Now available at all Meyers in Ohio! 
                               
                              #15
                                chicagostyledog

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                                Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Mon, 02/18/13 1:32 PM (permalink)
                                Brian Degalan, owner of the One Stop Coney Shop in Grand Rapids, MI is a proud graduate of Hot Dog University. Brian serves Koegels products, including a Chicago style version. www.onestopconeyshop.com
                                 
                                #16
                                  Jamerican28

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                                  • Location: Jackson, MI
                                  Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Fri, 09/20/13 12:39 PM (permalink)
                                  slaveforpizzaandsushi


                                  I believe in this case, the chili dog has no beans in it. 
                                  Does anyone have any definitive answers on this. 
                                  Does a chili dog have tex mex seasonings. 

                                  Help.

                                  The answer is largely based on the region of the country you're from.  Most food historians credit Jackson, Michigan as the founding place for the coney dog back in the late 1930's early 40's.  Detroit, New York, and a couple of other cities dispute this.  That being said even coneys in Michigan vary from city to city.  Jackson's coney islands all generally use a beef heart and beef suet grind that is seasoned with Greek, Hungarian, Macedonian, or some other seasoning from that ethnic background.  That sauce then simmers in a pot.  The finished product looks a little like taco meat but tastes very different.  The heart gives this sauce a distinct tangy flavor.  It is key at most coney islands in Michigan that high quality hot dogs such as Koegels, Kowalski, Dearborn, or something of that nature are used and that is no different in Jackson.  You'll never see a respectable coney island boiling a hot dog or using Oscar Meyer, Eckrich, or any other inferior brand.  They will generally be cooked on a flat iron grill.  Once the sauce is applied to the hot dog a small amount of mustard is put on it and then it is topped with diced or finely chopped onion.  These coneys are very filling.  The average person isn't going to eat many more than 2 or 3 due to the thickness of the sauce in fact my wife usually can't even eat one.
                                   
                                  The Detroit and New York style ones are generally a runnier coney sauce base.  They don't use the beef heart but they do season the sauce with similiar spices used in Jackson coneys.  They also generally use high quality hot dogs and top their coneys the same way.  The taste is much different because the texture of the sauce is more like a liquid and the absence of the heart doesn't give it the same tang.  Inside Michigan there is a huge debate about Detroit style vs. Jackson and Flint style coneys.  Most people from Jackson, Hillsdale, Battle Creek, etc... would say a Detroit coney is not a coney but a chili dog because of it's runny base while most in Detroit and the surrounding suburbs often don't care for the Jackson or Flint style ones because the sauce's texture is more like ground beef.  (Flint usually uses seasoned ground beef with no heart but the texture is still very similiar to a Jackson style with the absence of the beef heart tang.) 
                                  The rest of the country west of the midwest and south of New York generally consider coney and chili dogs to be the same from the coney places I've been.  Cincinatti has a great chili sauce for their hot dogs but it is not a coney in my opinion.  Texas also has a unique style I've tasted but I also consider that a chili dog, although a very spicy one.  Many other places are just clueless and think opening a can of chili and putting it on a hot dog is a coney.  Don't get me wrong chili cheese dogs are good but they're very different from a coney dog.
                                   
                                  In the end it's pretty much dependant on what part of the country you're from.  Most coney maniacs do however consider a coney to be a hot dog, with a Greek style seasoned sauce abesent of beans, with mustard, and onion.  Any other additional toppings alters the coney and thus makes it something else. (ketchup, cheese, tomatoes, lettuce, etc...) 
                                   
                                  I can't provide a link but if you google Todoroff's coney island you could order some frozen Jackson style sauce and if you google National coney island you could order some Detroit style coney sauce to see what I'm talking about.  The meat needs to thaw out in the fridge overnight and then simmer in a covered pot on the stove for best flavor results.  Heating straight from it's frozen state takes away flavor in my opinion.  Remember to add the mustard and diced onion once the coney sauce has been applied to the hot dog.  Then you could also just prepare a can of your favorite chili and put it on a hot dog to compare that as well.  Actually the famous Cincinatti chili sauce as well as many others are available in cans.  You will notice a distinct difference between all three.  Hope that helps.  As you can see I love coneys.  Jackson style are my favorite.  I also love Chicago style hotdogs.  Unfortunately I don't eat many anymore as I've been much more health conscious lately but once and awhile it's all good to grab a coney.
                                  <message edited by Jamerican28 on Fri, 09/20/13 12:47 PM>
                                   
                                  #17
                                    MetroplexJim

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                                    Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Fri, 09/20/13 12:58 PM (permalink)
                                    Jamerican28, I knew better than to ask what was in my hotdog, now I know not to inquire much about the sauce!
                                     
                                    Kidding aside, WELCOME TO ROADFOOD and thanks for the info!
                                     
                                    #18
                                      mjambro

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                                      Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Fri, 09/20/13 6:38 PM (permalink)
                                      RedJim64


                                      1bbqboy...

                                      My understanding is that there are only two types of hot dogs: weiners and frankfurters. A weiner is always an all beef sausage. A frankfurter is a blend of ground pork and beef.     

                                       
                                      Not entirely true.  Not sure of the exact makeup, but http://tinyurl.com/mkl6nuu states NY System weiners in RI are a pork based hotdog.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_wiener states they are a pork / veal mixture. 
                                       
                                      I've had many of these delicious critters at different places where none seem to have been an all beef item.
                                       
                                      For those unfamiliar with NY System weiners,  check out http://living.jroy.net/?p=491.  As he mentions, the weiners by themselves are quite bland, but it's the whole package that makes them so delightful.    
                                       
                                       
                                      #19
                                        John Fox

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                                        Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sat, 09/21/13 8:55 AM (permalink)
                                        My daughter lives in Rhode Island. I have been to 3 places serving these wieners.  One uses a Saugy which is a beef/pork frank. The other 2 use a very mild frank from Grote & Weigel that is pork, chicken, and beef. One owner told me that many Rhode Island joints use this particular dog.
                                         
                                        #20
                                          MetroplexJim

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                                          Re:What is the difference between a chili dog vs. a coney island Sun, 09/22/13 9:54 AM (permalink)
                                          Founded by Greek immigrants John Mitsos and George Papazickos in 1923, M&P Coney Island in New Castle, PA is celebrating 90 years in business.  The founding family still owns and operates it.  Here is a short video on it produced by a local college:  http://vimeo.com/29346137
                                           
                                          They serve the same dark brown "Coney Sauce" which Michael Stern illustrated in an earlier thread.  (The M&P Sauce has the same color and consistency; as usual, I couldn't find a better picture anywhere).
                                           

                                           
                                          Of course the "Coney Sauce" concocted by John Mitsos and George Papazickos 90 years ago remains a closely guarded family secret.  Here is an illustrated article featuring them:  http://www.tablemagazine.com/pdf/Little%20New%20York.pdf . 
                                           
                                          God Bless the M&P family; they have brought joy to my stomach for 50 of those 90 years! 
                                           
                                           
                                           
                                          #21
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