New food truck build

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Rcoy
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New food truck build - Thu, 03/21/13 12:59 AM
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I have a school bus, 38' that I wish to convert to a mobile cafe. I am in WA state, so I have been studying the regs and rules here. The bus currently has a plumbed restroom and dual overhead ac. I see that AC isn't allowed in a new build, but will it be allowed since it is existing on the current bus?
 
I intend to have a customer waiting area in the area of the bus that isn't occupied by the kitchen, I will likely have about 14' of space. The idea I like most is to put a double door in the middle of the curbside for egress.
 
I am looking at a tank, horizontal top mount 38g described on e-bay as "
MANCHESTER ASME VAPOR LP TANK 38 GAL unused Sidefill Horiz top mount propane" Does anyone have experience with such a tank? I believe that the huge surface area should provide adequate vapor pressure? I think 200k btu would be the most load I would be likely to require.
 
I see in the list for Labor and Industries approval that I need to have a set of plans "wet stamped" by an engineer or architect? Has anyone done that? Who did it, how much was it and would you recommend them?
 
I am sure more questions will arise, and I will post pics when I can, I have been lurking for quite some time so my 30 days should be up soon.
 
Thanks!
 

a.mckenna
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 03/21/13 10:48 AM
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I think the "grandfathering" thing where a AC would only be allowed in a truck that was built before the rule existed only applies to trucks that where previously licensed as a food truck.
 
Though I honestly don't remember ever being told by WA I couldn't put a AC in.
 
Do me a favor, send me a link at alice.mckenna1 at gmail dot com to what the heck you have been reading. I have built 1 cart for Vancouver WA, building one for Tacoma right now, and I am working on my own build for Tacoma.
 
No, never had to get a engineer to approve anything, thus my curiosity in what you are reading.
 
By the way, I am moving up there at the end of the month and will more then likely be opening a shop in the Seattle area building food trucks.

chefbuba
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 03/21/13 1:19 PM
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L&I just requires the plans to be approved by them, before you build, I didn't found anything about requiring an engineer. I'm reading the conversion/medical units under factory built structures.
I will tell you one thing, the final inspection is up to the individual inspectors discression, my trailer was built Exactly to the Stamped Approved Plans, and I was still made to do around $500 in changes, this was according to how the inspector interpreted the codes. I went round and round with this guy, even called his boss in Tacoma, I had to do what ever he thought was necessary, regardless of the way it was approved to be built.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 03/21/13 8:22 PM
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WAC 296-150V-0230

What are the insignia application requirements?

  (1) If you are requesting insignia for conversion vendor units or medical units that you intend to manufacture under a new design plan, your completed application must include:

     (a) A completed design plan approval request form;

     (b) One complete set of design plans, specifications, engineering analysis and test procedures and results (when applicable), plus one additional set for each manufacturing location where the design plan will be used;

     (c) At least one set of design plans must have an original wet stamp from a professional engineer or architect licensed in Washington state. We will retain the set with the original wet stamp; and

     (d) A one-time initial filing fee, the design plan fee, and the fee for each insignia (see WAC ).

     (2) If you are requesting insignia under an approved design plan, your completed application must include:

     (a) A completed insignia application form; and

     (b) The fee for each conversion vendor unit or medical unit insignia (see WAC ).
 
This is where I saw the stamp bit, and I saw a couple posts on the forum here indicating that L&I told them a/c wasn't allowed due to "energy inefficiency"

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 03/21/13 8:24 PM
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chefbuba


L&I just requires the plans to be approved by them, before you build, I didn't found anything about requiring an engineer. I'm reading the conversion/medical units under factory built structures.
I will tell you one thing, the final inspection is up to the individual inspectors discression, my trailer was built Exactly to the Stamped Approved Plans, and I was still made to do around $500 in changes, this was according to how the inspector interpreted the codes. I went round and round with this guy, even called his boss in Tacoma, I had to do what ever he thought was necessary, regardless of the way it was approved to be built.

 
If I can get by with 500$ in modifications to the approved plan (Provided I get one approved) I will be perfectly satisfied.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 03/21/13 8:29 PM
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a.mckenna


I think the "grandfathering" thing where a AC would only be allowed in a truck that was built before the rule existed only applies to trucks that where previously licensed as a food truck.

Though I honestly don't remember ever being told by WA I couldn't put a AC in.



No, never had to get a engineer to approve anything, thus my curiosity in what you are reading.

By the way, I am moving up there at the end of the month and will more then likely be opening a shop in the Seattle area building food trucks.

 
Nice, I will head over and we can go sample the existing food establishments, have you lived here before? Where are you located presently?

a.mckenna
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 03/21/13 9:52 PM
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In Portland now, lived in Seattle a couple times over the past 10 years. Might actually be moving to Bremerton oddly enough, going to look at a house there Saturday if I get this taco truck build done. Suppose to release it Saturday morning and get paid, so I can go re distribute that pay out to a landlord.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 03/27/13 7:36 PM
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Well, Labor and Industries says as long as there isn't any inside seating I can go for it and submit my design.
 

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chefbuba
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 03/27/13 8:19 PM
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You also need to add a produce sink.
Make sure that you have an air gap from your 3 comp sink and the produce sink to the waste tank, can't be directly connected....... let's see what else I remember.....
They made me add a third P-trap to my 3 compartment sink, a shut off for the propane as it entered the trailer, even though there were already shut off's at each appliance and at the tanks.
Electrical has to be surface mounted in conduit, not in the walls, unless there has been a change in the last couple of years.
 

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 03/27/13 8:55 PM
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Thanks for your input.
King CO. doesn't allow any prep onboard so a produce sink would be redundant, and I didn't see any requirements. (But I will certainly look again and it probably would be a great idea to have one anyway, it's just finding a good place for it.) I could potentially put it in place of the coffee station and build a top for the sink to set the coffee maker on and plumb it to the existing sink piping. I have planned the electric to be exposed, so thats all good. Can you post a pic or diagram of your plumbing for the 3 comp sink? I haven't been able to find an example.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 03/27/13 8:59 PM
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Also, the L&I fellow says I need a type II hood for the gas steam table. Does that need to be nsf and/or rated or do I just need a fan equipped device to remove vapors from over the table? He wasn't too clear on that point and you would think with a 2500 cfm type 1 right next to it it would be pretty well vented.

chefbuba
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 03/27/13 9:34 PM
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Take a look in this thread, there are a couple of examples on an air gap.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 03/27/13 10:36 PM
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Yeah I saw that thread, I also saw an install that had the 3 comp sink with 3 p-traps to one pipe, then to the air gap, is that what you used? I am intending to put a floor drain in for washing out the kitchen, if I put it under the sink/s I can just drain to that?

chefbuba
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 03/27/13 11:52 PM
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3 P-traps in line, t's into the vent, produce sink t's in under that, water drops from there to 2" above the bowl.
I don't see why not, as long as it gives you the air gap required.
 

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 03/28/13 12:30 AM
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Thanks, that helps a great deal. I will be back soon I am sure.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Thu, 04/25/13 8:46 PM
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And I got approval subject to code and field inspection today!
Guess it is time to start ordering stuff. I was sweating the onboard order and pickup bit but he says as long as there is NO seating or dining onboard it will fly. Must be the B&Ms that got that part inserted back in 2003.

daddywoofdawg
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Re:New food truck build - Sat, 04/27/13 3:19 AM
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Do you have to have ansel?have you run the design past the fire dept?since you will have people coming on board they may feel left out.have they "approved" the plans in writing.So when your done building you find out the guy/gal doesn't work there anymore and the New one reads it different. 

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Sat, 04/27/13 9:50 AM
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Yeah fire suppression is in the plan, there are taco trucks here with onboard seating but they are grandfathered under L&I (the rcw was changed in 2003) I think i will do that though, be a bummer to find out after the fact.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Fri, 05/3/13 2:21 AM
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Got a generator for the bus, it's a Cummins/Onan HDKCD 12.5 kw

Really quiet, moderate fuel consumption, plenty of power.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 05/15/13 9:07 PM
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Generator is mounted, breaker box roughed in, ordered the diamondplate and stainless today, going to attempt to have the entry and exit stairs and doors done by the end of the week.

fishscale28
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 05/15/13 10:36 PM
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Sounds good and seem like you're moving right along.  Looking forward to some pics of your genny install.  I had to get pretty creative with mine and still wondering how well it will work out so definitely interested in seeing how you did yours!
 

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Mon, 05/27/13 9:43 AM
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I will post some pics soonish, we got the stainless wall up and the subfloor and diamond plate in the kitchen fitted. Got the propane tank, it is only 38g, hoping it is big enough to run the kitchen when it is chilly outsde.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Mon, 05/27/13 10:01 AM
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And, Chefbuba, we are adding the produce sink per your recommendation.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Mon, 05/27/13 10:03 AM
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fishscale28


Sounds good and seem like you're moving right along.  Looking forward to some pics of your genny install.  I had to get pretty creative with mine and still wondering how well it will work out so definitely interested in seeing how you did yours!


 
I will try to get some photos of the install set up.

fujichrome
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 09/25/13 10:56 AM
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didn't see an answer to this. so were you required to get a wet stamp. i'm working on my own drawing and didn't see this requirement until you posted it.

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 09/25/13 8:15 PM
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No, I was not, I detailed the weight of the equipment on the hotline in my plans and it was approved.
 
I did modify some things, and in May of this year the requirement for a warewash sink was removed. I have mine already roughed in but it takes a lot of room that could have been used for something more useful.
 
This is where we are thus far.
 
https://www.facebook.com/KingBiscuitMobileCafe
 

gonzojuice
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Re:New food truck build - Wed, 09/25/13 11:49 PM
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Wow. Your build looks awesome. I love the stairs. Metal work and fabrication is beyond me at my level but it sure is inspiring. I am eager to follow along.

eric/Jenn
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Re:New food truck build - Fri, 09/27/13 6:01 PM
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awesome I so wish you would post pics of your build ^_^
 

CajunKing
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Re:New food truck build - Fri, 09/27/13 6:30 PM
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eric/Jenn


awesome I so wish you would post pics of your build ^_^


 
Umm he did, check the FB page and click on photos

edwmax
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Re:New food truck build - Fri, 09/27/13 6:55 PM
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Rcoy


No, I was not, I detailed the weight of the equipment on the hotline in my plans and it was approved.

I did modify some things, and in May of this year the requirement for a warewash sink was removed. I have mine already roughed in but it takes a lot of room that could have been used for something more useful.

This is where we are thus far.

https://www.facebook.com/KingBiscuitMobileCafe


 
I just looked at the pictures.   The box for the genset looks like the bottom was lowered, what the the ground clearance there?     In other words, how tall of a hump can the bus pass over now?    ... raised (hump) railroad crossings ??? ...

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Fri, 09/27/13 8:04 PM
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The bus had a belly luggage area, we just built a frame for the genset and put some reinforcement in for the extra weight. It's 7.5" from the framework to the ground roughly. If it becomes an issue I will airbag the rear to gain a couple inches then dump the air when in position. It is an airbrake rig so we already have air.

edwmax
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Re:New food truck build - Sat, 09/28/13 10:25 AM
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Did you lower the baggage compartment anyor was that the existing clearance?      ... I think this makes the bus fall into the 'long wheel base - low clearance' hazard vehicle (hump hangup).    Lowboy long wheel base trailers may be as low as 6"; some 'city' bus might be as low as 8".   ...Most long wheel base 'road' vehicles have 12 to 14 inched ground clearance.  
 
Your problem areas would be at railroad type hump crossings and driveway (parking lot) entrance/exists (very common).     ... Most humps are designed for short wheel base (passenger car & pickup truck) vehicles with lead-up ramps/slope to limit the clearance to 3" or less.   But with long wheel base vehicle the entire hump (or portion) between the wheels may exceed the vehicle clearance (ie: hump hangup).   Most road designers don't have the proper references for correct design of low clearance vehicles, then fixing the hangup hazard is an 'after the fact' situation.

edwmax
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Re:New food truck build - Sat, 09/28/13 10:40 AM
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Note to other 'bus' builders:     ... Try to maintain the existing ground clearances.   If the bus has low clearance storage compartments (less than 10" ?), consider raising the compartment bottom.   There is nothing wrong with the compartment top extending above the floor if under a counter or cabinet.
 
Yes, there are RV motor homes with 7" & 8" ground clearance.  I think the idea with these are: if the owner can afford the RV, he can afford a 'HEAVY' wrecker to lift the RV off of a hump hangeup.    ... Hopefully a fast TRAIN doesn't come before the wrecker can get there.
 
Just my 5ยข worth  ... well may be I own some change ...
<message edited by edwmax on Sat, 09/28/13 10:47 AM>

Rcoy
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Re:New food truck build - Sat, 09/28/13 12:42 PM
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edwmax


Did you lower the baggage compartment anyor was that the existing clearance?      ... I think this makes the bus fall into the 'long wheel base - low clearance' hazard vehicle (hump hangup).    Lowboy long wheel base trailers may be as low as 6"; some 'city' bus might be as low as 8".   ...Most long wheel base 'road' vehicles have 12 to 14 inched ground clearance.  

Your problem areas would be at railroad type hump crossings and driveway (parking lot) entrance/exists (very common).     ... Most humps are designed for short wheel base (passenger car & pickup truck) vehicles with lead-up ramps/slope to limit the clearance to 3" or less.   But with long wheel base vehicle the entire hump (or portion) between the wheels may exceed the vehicle clearance (ie: hump hangup).   Most road designers don't have the proper references for correct design of low clearance vehicles, then fixing the hangup hazard is an 'after the fact' situation.

No, the clearance is exactly the same as it was from the factory. I had to raise the upper portion through the floor to gain clearance for the genset by 4", and as you said I will build a cabinet over that portion of the floor.
 
<message edited by Rcoy on Sat, 09/28/13 12:44 PM>

edwmax
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Re:New food truck build - Fri, 10/11/13 9:50 AM
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Today on the CNN website was this video.  Watch the train slam into the 18 wheeler with low clearance trailer stuck on the 'hump'.   Just thought I would post it, it does happen.   Obviously the Driver was not aware of the trailer clearance problem until too late.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/10/10/vo-train-slams-into-truck.komo&hpt=hp_t3&from_homepage=yes
 
Low clearance vehicles were designed for State/US & interstate roadways, not secondary 'city/county' roads where 'hump' clearance could be a problem.   ... oh well, just my 2 cents ...
<message edited by edwmax on Fri, 10/11/13 9:58 AM>