Bread baking question

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Prof
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Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 8:29 AM
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We love fresh bread.  Who doesn't.  But very often my dough has a problem and if you have a suggetion/cause/solution, please contribute.  On the second rise the dough looks beautiful, nice and high.  Then when I put it into the hot oven, the dough falls and the loaf ends up almost like a ciabatta if it is a free form loaf or falls below the level of the top of the loaf pan.  Any ideas?  Thanks
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

love2bake
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 11:14 AM
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It's possible you need a little bit more flour to help it hold the structure. However, first let me ask you a question:  when you've stopped kneading it, does it pull away from the sides of the bowl (or your kneading surface, if kneading by hand) or is it sticky?  If sticky, you can either knead it longer, and/or add 1 Tablespoon of flour at a time, just until it does leave the sides of the bowl (or surface) without sticking.  (Be judicious about adding flour, as you don't want to make a brick, which I've done before.) 
 
There's another technique you can use to see if you've kneaded it enough.  It's called "pulling a window," and you basically take a small bit of dough (after kneading) and stretch it carefully in several directions to make it thin--almost thin enough to see through.  If it breaks, you should knead it longer and test again until you can stretch it thin. 
 
Try both of these and see if it improves your result.  Good luck!!
<message edited by love2bake on Thu, 03/21/13 11:28 AM>

Prof
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 12:32 PM
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love2bake,
I use a stand mixer and the dough pulled away quite nicely, nice first rise, felt just right on kneeding before second rise.  So I don't think I needed more flour for that loaf yesterday, but it fell.  The same thing happened a couple days ago with a wet dough.  The fall seems to occur when I shake the loaf off the peel as I insert into the oven.  I am not being rough or banging the dough but it seems to take almost no shaking for the fall to occur.  I don't know how I can be much more gentle in a hot oven.
 
Thanks

ann peeples
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 12:59 PM
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My husband makes hand made bread all the time-never, ever shakes it when he puts it into the oven. Just a thought.

love2bake
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 2:23 PM
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I agree with Ann--you work hard to get that rise--combination of air and structure--before baking, and shaking too much could definitely be a problem.
 
Also, try spraying the sides of your oven with water just before you put the loaf in.  Or you could put a pan of hot water on the shelf underneath your bread.  That can help "oven spring" in which the loaf stays soft while rising in the oven before the crust is set.
 
Also, try shaping the bread directly on parchment and use the peel underneath that.
 
Do check the "window" technique, too.

3 Olives
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 6:25 PM
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It's overproofed. You need to put it in the oven earlier.

love2bake
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 6:49 PM
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Ahhh--I didn't even think to ask about that!

Foodbme
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 03/21/13 10:31 PM
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Problem could be the oven temp calabration.
Have you checked your oven temp to make sure it's reaching the correct Temp?

Prof
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 04/4/13 7:35 AM
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I think 3 Olives got it.  I was overproofing on the second rise.  I have only had one chance to put everyone's suggestions into play.  I did not allow nearly as large a rise as I usually do. The loaf was not delicate as previously and I got a great oven spring.  Perfect loaf resulted.  Thanks to all who contributed.

Earl of Sandwich
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Re:Bread baking question - Thu, 04/4/13 8:16 AM
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This is all very interesting...I've had a hankering to make some bread.  I made bread many years ago and loved it but haven't done it for a long time.

Prof
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Re:Bread baking question - Fri, 04/5/13 8:19 AM
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Hi Earl,
I got this idea from the book Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day.  I mix enough dough for two large loaves, let it rise once and then refrigerate the dough.  There are only two of us at home and even one large loaf is too much so I break off about a third of a loaf's worth of dough and bake that.  That lasts us two days and then I bake another small loaf so we have fresh bread anytime we want it.  The dough keeps for up to 2 weeks in the fridge.  Those small loaves also make great sandwiches for muffallettas and other such sandwiches.
Prof

CajunKing
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Re:Bread baking question - Fri, 04/5/13 4:39 PM
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I have to admit.....
 
I use my bread machine
 
Makes great bread, I have several bread books, my favorite(s)
 
Breaking Bread with Father Dominic (1 & 2)
and
More Breaking Bread with Father Dominic
 
 

Earl of Sandwich
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Re:Bread baking question - Sun, 04/7/13 6:25 AM
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Shout Outs to both Cajun King and Prof ( what do/did you teach?).  Prof I loved your idea, it's just my wife & I, and I am going to get both book choices and I'm really excited.  Thanks so much for chiming in!

Prof
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Re:Bread baking question - Sun, 04/7/13 8:34 AM
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Earl,
FYI in Fresh Bread in 5 Minutes @ Day, the authors state that you don't need to knead the bread.  Just one man's opinion but I found that mixing and kneading in my stand mixer improves the loaf and you have to figure out how much time you need to let that dough warm up and rise after it is refrigerated.  Let us know how it goes.  I am curious how others do it.