Help, is my fryer LP or NG

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YOAman
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Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 12:19 AM
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Ok, So I went to pick up a used fryer the other day, a frymaster model MJ35SD, I was told it was propane, the late inside that would say is to warn out to read.  I hooked it up to my propane line and after it almost exploded while lighting, the burners started blazing like a jet engine ( literally, my wife heard it from inside the house and came out and asked if that was a low flying jet she heard ) All this leads me to believe its NG and not LP. I hope that is the case, because its either that, or its broken, and selling a good working NG fryer will be easier then a broken LP. Is there any way to tell? what are your thoughts? thanks!

edwmax
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 1:39 AM
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Your fryer has a jet type burner and likely the tank pressure is too high.    The manufacture specs indicate the line pressure is 6 WC for NG & 11 WC for LPG.
 
So you may be correct, that you unit is setup as a NG.   Locate the orifice and remove.  Take it to a LPG supplier/dealer for them to check the size.  LPG orifice has a smaller hole than a NG orifice.   A new orifice is only a couple of $$.  ... Also, check your line pressure and try lowering the pressure.   You can get by using a NG orifice with LPG; but the line pressure needs to be lowered to about 5 or 6 WC.
 
You may need to install an (2nd) 1/2 npt, adjustable regulator at the fryer connection.  ... If the lpg tank is dedicated to the fryer, then an one adjustable regulator at the tank is OK.
 
 

edwmax
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 2:05 AM
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Here is a orifice chart to compare orifice size.    For 110000 BTU burner at 11 WC (LPG) the hole size is 1/8 inch.   you can check this using drill bits as a Gage.
http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/lowp_chrt.html

YOAman
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 10:39 AM
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Well, after scratching away and cleaning the label, you still cant read much, but you can read "orifice size: 1.05" from my understanding, thats LP. So I guess the fryer is not working right. Any ideas what could be the problem?

BelCibo
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 1:16 PM
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My guess would be tank pressure too high as well.  Are your other LP appliances working properly?
 
I had the wrong regulator type installed and caused all kinds of issues when I tested my equipment.  Water Heater would not work at all, two burner was a flame thrower and my fryer leaked propane around the pilot primer button when pushed.  I had a single stage regulator installed and was depending on the machine regulators to be the second stage.  The LP prior to the machine regulators needs to be at the 10"WC.
<message edited by BelCibo on Tue, 05/21/13 1:27 PM>

YOAman
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 8:30 PM
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Ok, so the jet is a fare bit smaller then 1/8".  All my other appliances work fine. I am testing it on my little 5lb propane tank. Tried a few regulators and they all seem to have the same affect. How can I test to see what the wc level is at? Also, the fryer has an on/off valve to the propane line, can I use that to "choke" off some of the propane flow to get the right flow? thanks guys for helping me out

BelCibo
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 10:37 PM
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Some regulators have a port on them for a gauge.  10" is less than 1/2 PSI so you need a special gauge.  There's a cap on the regulator that can be removed to adjust the pressure.  I've not done it, just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Bellows-Gauge-Inches-Water-Column/dp/B00A9VEC54

edwmax
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/21/13 11:25 PM
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A 5lb lpg tank is seriously under size for the fryer.   Your Fryer is rated at 110,000 BTU/hr. To supply this and not freeze up the regulator & tank, you need a 200 lb LPG tank (@ 60 deg F ) or two 100 lb LPG tanks.
 
Try testing the fryer with a larger tank, at least a 100 lb lpg tank.  It will supply abt 80,000 btu per hr. Set the regulator about 6 to 8 WC for the 100 lb tank which should limit the burner to about 80,000 btu/hr. 
<message edited by edwmax on Tue, 05/21/13 11:29 PM>

YOAman
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Wed, 05/22/13 12:42 AM
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sorry, didnt mean 5lbs, meant 20lbs, this is for my food truck, a 200lbs tank is to big, might be able to work in a 100

daddywoofdawg
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Thu, 05/23/13 1:41 PM
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I think what was meant was two 100 lb tanks.I would check your manaifold and the orifice.The sticker may say it's lp but it could of been changed to NG before you bought it.
As far as W.C take your reg to a real propane dealer I.E not walmart or the gas station.and have them check the W.C they have a gauge.take a orifice or two also.
On your reg. It should be stamped the W.C and most likely weather it's for LP or Ng.

YOAman
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/28/13 10:33 AM
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Ok, so I finally had a day off to work on this thing a bit. I have found by talking with people that it is indeed set up for propane and the wc is where it needs to be. So my question is, is this how its suppose to work? I worked in a deli for a number of years before, but our fryers did not have this kind of jet burner setup, and I have spent the last year or so running a hot dog cart ( carts are not allowed to have fryers in Idaho), so this is all kind of new to me. Its still loud, still sounds like a jet plane. If I try to lower the propane pressure at all, I hear a click and all propane flow shuts off, even the pilot light and I have to wait a bit before it will relight. This sounds like some kind of low pressure safety shut off to me. Also, I had assumed that the temp control knob would decrease the burner output when I lowered the temp, and since it did not do that, I assumed it was not working. But now im wondering if it just shuts off when it reaches temp and then relights to bring it back up? Im scared to find out because I do not want to over heat the oil and start a fire. Thanks for all your help guys

kingofcreams
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/28/13 10:58 AM
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YOAman


Ok, so I finally had a day off to work on this thing a bit. I have found by talking with people that it is indeed set up for propane and the wc is where it needs to be. So my question is, is this how its suppose to work? I worked in a deli for a number of years before, but our fryers did not have this kind of jet burner setup, and I have spent the last year or so running a hot dog cart ( carts are not allowed to have fryers in Idaho), so this is all kind of new to me. Its still loud, still sounds like a jet plane. If I try to lower the propane pressure at all, I hear a click and all propane flow shuts off, even the pilot light and I have to wait a bit before it will relight. This sounds like some kind of low pressure safety shut off to me. Also, I had assumed that the temp control knob would decrease the burner output when I lowered the temp, and since it did not do that, I assumed it was not working. But now im wondering if it just shuts off when it reaches temp and then relights to bring it back up? Im scared to find out because I do not want to over heat the oil and start a fire. Thanks for all your help guys


Understand the order of operation. 1st, make sure main gas is on to appliance and the gas valve knob is set to 'off' as well. Also make sure thermostat is set to 'off' position. Verify there is no gas flow through your burners or pilot burner in your fryer. If so than your gas valve is bad. Replace
2. If no flow then turn gas valve knob to pilot and push down. 
2. Push and hold pilot, light pilot, keep holding for around 60 seconds. When you release the knob the pilot should stay lit. If not re-lite but hold for 90 seconds. This should be way longer than you need to keep the pilot running on its own.
3. once pilot stays lit. turn gas valve knob to 'On'. Nothing should happen at this point except for the pilot should stay lit.
4. With your face out of the way, turn the thermostat away from 'off' to a temperature that would cause the gas valve to open and the burner to light. The burner should ignite immediately. If not, is the pilot dirty in need of a cleaning? Are the burners dirty in need of cleaning? A dirty pilot would also cause the pilot not to stay lit as well. Also you should not try to get the main burner to light without water or oil in the tank.
 
I'm thinking with the way you describe that you're getting a delayed ignition situation. If the main burner does not ignite right away after the valve opens but the pilot is still lit, eventually the gas will ignite when it accumulates enough to reach the pilot flame. When that happens you'll get blow back and possibly an explosion. Also keep in mind that propane is heavier than air so it will sink and puddle to the lowest point it can.
Hope this helps
<message edited by kingofcreams on Tue, 05/28/13 11:03 AM>

edwmax
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Re:Help, is my fryer LP or NG - Tue, 05/28/13 11:17 AM
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A 'jet-burner' or tube-burner will be louder than low pressure type round type burners.   ... But I don't think it should be so loud to be heard from inside the house as stated above.   ...???... unless someone was at the window or door and the frier was only a few few away.

 
The click you are hearing is a safety to insure a minimum gas pressure so the flame will not burning inside of the tube.   ... From what you have stated now the frier is working normally.
 
As far as lp tank size refer to 'Vaporization Rates of Cylinders' charts for capacities.   http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/PropaneNGUse.html  ... As you can see a 20LB tank is rated at 24,000 btu under best conditions.   Your frier is rated at 110,000 btu.   You will have problems running this frier at capacity on less than two 100lb tanks in cold weather.  ... I think, this frier is way over size (BTU wise) for your use.   A 60,000 btu frier would serve your needs better. It may take longer to heat up, but once hot it wouldn't take long to recover between batches.  ... anyway just my opinion ...  but you have to balance LP Gas supply, btu required, vs TOTAL Btu needed by all equipment and/or individual piece and the size of tanks used (or needed).
<message edited by edwmax on Tue, 05/28/13 11:41 AM>