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A Line That has to be Drawn

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Treetop Tom

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  • Location: Baltimore, MD
A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 10:02 AM (permalink)
[Helpful answer received] / [List Solutions Only]
Once again, a discussion on another thread has brought out the questioning linguist in me.  It goes something like this:  Some sandwiches are named by their ingredients – pimento cheese or peanut butter & jelly or pulled pork.  Not much to think about – they are what they’re made of.  But how much leeway do you give named sandwiches before they cross the line into no longer representing a proper specimen?  For example, most people (but not all) will now accept that a Reuben can be made with either corned beef or pastrami (or amongst some scofflaws, even turkey, substituting slaw for kraut [sometimes referred to as a Rachel]).  Some will accept 1000 Island dressing, others demand Russian.  Traditionally, a Monte Cristo is made with ham & Emmentaler or Gruyere cheese, dipped, deep-fried and served with jam (or it was in my neck of the woods, anyway).  Many recipes now call for turkey, either in place of, or in addition to, the ham.  Some substitute Swiss cheese for the traditional French cheeses.  Some leave out the jam altogether, to the horror of purists.  Would a Muffuletta still be correctly called one if it was made with American cold cuts and cheese with pickle relish rather than Italian cold cuts, cheeses and olive salad spread?   Is a Devonshire made with beef and Gouda cheese sauce a Devonshire?  Is a chicken cheesesteak really a cheesesteak at all?  What is a sandwich you draw a firm line on?  Are there any?
<message edited by Treetop Tom on Thu, 09/12/13 11:32 AM>
 
#1
    Phildelmar

    • Total Posts: 788
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    • Location: Newark, DE
    Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 11:10 AM (permalink)
    Good points. A Reuben made with turkey is called a Rachel around here.
     
    #2
      myterry2

      • Total Posts: 526
      • Joined: 4/15/2007
      • Location: Lake Forest, IL
      Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 11:16 AM (permalink)
      Correct..but it's all about making money...owners of these type sandwich shops, deli's, etc., don't want to miss one dollar of business, so they starting inventing cross breeding of long time staple sandwiches.  And it continues to be a work in progress.
       
       
      #3
        ann peeples

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        • Location: West Allis, Wisconsin
        Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 12:46 PM (permalink)
        [This post was marked as helpful]
        In 1977, a Monte Christo was turkey, ham and American cheese. Deep fried, dusted with powdered sugar and serves with strawberry jam. The other sandwich I noticed that is different is a club sandwich. In my day it was basically a BLT with turkey.Cut in quarters. Nowadays, at famous sandwich parlors, its ham, turkey and cheese-no bacon!
         
        #4
          ALL GOOD

          • Total Posts: 57
          • Joined: 9/5/2006
          • Location: MILWAUKEE, WI
          Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 1:39 PM (permalink)
          A grilled cheese used to be the same everywhere you went..white bread, american cheese, grilled on the flat iron.  Now, today, we have specialty food trucks and even restaurants that ONLY do grilled cheese in an array of varieties.  Bring back the old standard!
           
          #5
            DaddyRoux

            • Total Posts: 3
            • Joined: 3/19/2008
            • Location: Anaheim, CA
            Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 2:45 PM (permalink)
            These misnomer food crimes started with Chicken and Shrimp "Fajitas" in the '80's.
             Once sandwich ingredients veer from the accepted recipe, they should take on a different name.
            DR
             
            #6
              Michael Hoffman

              • Total Posts: 17837
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              • Location: Gahanna, OH
              Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 3:54 PM (permalink)
              Then there were Olive Garden's commercials a couple of years ago for chicken scampi, which is a kind of hard thing to do.
               
              #7
                Michael Hoffman

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                Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 7:43 PM (permalink)
                I've never heard of deep frying a Monte Cristo.
                 
                #8
                  ann peeples

                  • Total Posts: 8317
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                  Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 7:49 PM (permalink)
                  I worked for a California based restaurant named JoJos- that's how they did it-I am thinking they came in premade and frozen.........thus the deep frying. I had never heard of the sandwich before, so I had nothing to compare it to....
                   
                  #9
                    Phildelmar

                    • Total Posts: 788
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                    Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 8:21 PM (permalink)
                    The ones that I've had weren't deep fried.
                     
                    #10
                      Treetop Tom

                      • Total Posts: 322
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                      • Location: Baltimore, MD
                      Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 8:49 PM (permalink)
                      Michael Hoffman

                       
                      I've never heard of deep frying a Monte Cristo.

                       
                      Phildelmar


                      The ones that I've had weren't deep fried.

                      Curious.  How were they done if they weren't fried in oil?  Grilled?  Not all of the ones I've had were full immersion fried, probably, but they were definitely fried.  I wasn't aware they came any other way.
                      <message edited by Treetop Tom on Thu, 09/12/13 8:51 PM>
                       
                      #11
                        Michael Hoffman

                        • Total Posts: 17837
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                        Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 8:56 PM (permalink)
                        They're usually fried in a skillet, or on a flattop.
                         
                        #12
                          Treetop Tom

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                          Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 9:11 PM (permalink)
                          Michael Hoffman


                          They're usually fried in a skillet, or on a flattop.

                          Deep fried in a skillet I would understand.  Shallow frying in a skillet where the sandwich had to be turned would allow for greater grease absorption and a soggy crust.
                          <message edited by Treetop Tom on Thu, 09/12/13 9:14 PM>
                           
                          #13
                            Michael Hoffman

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                            Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 9:18 PM (permalink)
                            As my grandchildren are won't to say, Whatever.
                             
                            #14
                              Treetop Tom

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                              Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 9:22 PM (permalink)
                              Michael Hoffman


                              As my grandchildren are won't to say, Whatever.

                              Spoken like a true know-it-all, Michael.
                               
                              #15
                                Michael Hoffman

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                                Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 9:25 PM (permalink)
                                How very clever. Who's writing your material?
                                 
                                #16
                                  Treetop Tom

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                                  Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 9:30 PM (permalink)
                                  Michael Hoffman


                                  How very clever. Who's writing your material?

                                  It must be a great convenience to your wife and family to have someone who knows everything there is to know right at hand.
                                   
                                  #17
                                    ayersian

                                    Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 9:30 PM (permalink)
                                    myterry2

                                    Correct..but it's all about making money...owners of these type sandwich shops, deli's, etc., don't want to miss one dollar of business, so they starting inventing cross breeding of long time staple sandwiches.  And it continues to be a work in progress.

                                    I think this is what makes Roadfooding so much fun for me, although it spoils you quickly.  For example, I grew up in the South and didn't eat a real Philly cheesesteak until adulthood.  Yet my mother made us Steak-umm sandwiches that we loved as kids (though I'd never buy those again, even for nostalgia's sake).  Now that I've thoroughly studied and consumed the finest cheesesteaks in Philly, I'm not that inclined to try them outside of said city.  Sure, there are hits and misses, but there's always something else better to eat, too.  And it's not that I'm trying to stay as regionally appropriate as possible -- it's simply a matter of taste and preference.  I love when restaurants attempt their own versions of the classics, especially when they come really, really close to the taste of the originals.  Those are the places about which I am most enthusiastic to write!    Chris
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    #18
                                      CajunKing

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                                      • Roadfood Insider
                                      Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 9:50 PM (permalink)
                                      I agree with you Chris, the differences between even restaurants that are in the same city are fun to explore and learn about.  The histories of many of these places often have a central link (somebody worked for or was the nephew of....) and it is also fun to learn about them too.
                                       
                                      #19
                                        Treetop Tom

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                                        Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 10:06 PM (permalink)
                                        CajunKing


                                        I agree with you Chris, the differences between even restaurants that are in the same city are fun to explore and learn about.  The histories of many of these places often have a central link (somebody worked for or was the nephew of....) and it is also fun to learn about them too.

                                        Along those same lines, I've always been interested in cross-town (sometimes cross-street) claims of being "the first."  Who really was the first in El Reno, OK, to smash together ground beef and onions to make an onion burger?  Who was the first to make a "Juicy Lucy"?  Many can claim it, but only one can be correct.  But who knows?
                                         
                                        #20
                                          Michael Hoffman

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                                          Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Thu, 09/12/13 11:02 PM (permalink)
                                          Treetop Tom


                                          Michael Hoffman


                                          How very clever. Who's writing your material?

                                          It must be a great convenience to your wife and family to have someone who knows everything there is to know right at hand.

                                          I'm sorry you can't handle the fact that I know how a particular sandwich is supposed to be done, and you obviously do not. I guess the fact that I find the food at Chubby's  to be quite good drives you ever the edge. Too bad. Oh, and I don't know quite everything. For instance, I don't know why your knickers are always in a twist.
                                          <message edited by Michael Hoffman on Thu, 09/12/13 11:34 PM>
                                           
                                          #21
                                            easydoesit

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                                            Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 3:33 AM (permalink)
                                            [This post was marked as helpful]
                                            The first Monte Christo I can remember was in Alaska in the mid 70's.  Don't remember the exact ingredients, but it was dipped and deep-fried and delicious.  Several others after that were the same.  Lately, I would like another like that, but can't find it.  They always seem to be grilled, which I always considered to be the lazy cook's way.  I'm looking for the old way.
                                             
                                            Re the club sandwich, and Ann Peeples remark about bacon -- yes, what happened to the bacon in many club sandwiches lately?  It's just gone, and that removes it from the 'club' category, for me.
                                              
                                             
                                            #22
                                              ocdreamr

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                                              Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 5:30 AM (permalink)
                                              I saw this the first time the other day. It was in the frozen case at the grocers.  All I could do was look at it & ask myself which is it????
                                               
                                              #23
                                                Treetop Tom

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                                                Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 9:01 AM (permalink)
                                                Sigh.  Please go troll somewhere else, Michael.  Your constant need to “score points” has transcended your goal of aggravation and simply has become tiresome and pitiable.   And just so you know, you've become the first poster I've ever blocked, so your future "witty rejoinders" to me will be (thankfully) falling on deaf ears.  Have a nice day!
                                                <message edited by Treetop Tom on Fri, 09/13/13 10:03 AM>
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  Phildelmar

                                                  • Total Posts: 788
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                                                  Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 10:40 AM (permalink)
                                                  Was just looking at a menu from Catherine Rooneys, an Irish pub in Wilmington, and they list a Monte Cristo quesadilla.
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    Michael Hoffman

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                                                    Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 10:55 AM (permalink)
                                                    The poor sparrow in the treetop just can't stand the heat.
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      pnwchef

                                                      • Total Posts: 2236
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                                                      Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 12:08 PM (permalink)
                                                      It only took about 10 hrs for treetop to start a argument. At least he's screwing up his own post, not someone else's..........
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        Michael Hoffman

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                                                        Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 12:16 PM (permalink)
                                                        Ah, the flagger strikes again.
                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          Treetop Tom

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                                                          Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 12:21 PM (permalink)
                                                          [This post was marked as helpful]
                                                          BAM!  Another troll blocked!  I wonder why I didn't do this months ago - LOL!!!
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            tiki

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                                                            Re:A Line That has to be Drawn Fri, 09/13/13 1:14 PM (permalink)
                                                            Deep frying ANY sandwich is the lazy mans--made cheap--adaptaion!! Sauteing--in BUTTER!--is way CLAAIER, TASTIER AND JUST PLAIN DELICIOUS---ESPECIALLY THE WAY MOST PLACE MAINTAIN THEIR DEEP FRY OIL! When i can smell the deep fryer from the front door, i KNOW what the fried food will taste like already!
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            #30
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