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 "Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012

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MetroplexJim

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Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Mon, 02/27/12 7:27 AM (permalink)
saps


Jim- anabolic steroids have been illegal in the U.S. since around 1990.  That's why Balco and Victor Conte were such a big deal- they broke the law, as Bonds did by illegally obtaining and using them.  MLB and it's players obviously fall under the jurisdiction of U.S. law.  There isn't and never was any special dispensation that allowed players to use steroids in baseball while there was already federal law forbidding it.  In fact, Faye Vincent sent memos to the clubs and players union in 1991 reminding them that steroids were illegal:

"This memorandum sets forth Baseball's drug policy." "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription."

  The only thing that really changed was that testing was put in place in 2004 and there were provisions made for suspensions.



saps, you have a point there.  But Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and McGwire never had a positive test.  Yes, just by looking at Bonds anyone can tell that he "did something".  But then there is the issue of "designer drugs" which are, until they are discovered and listed, technically "legal".  In fact, I can remember McGwire proudly "showing off" all the supplements in his locker.  Yeah, it's a mess.  Makes me sick, just like the first "O.J. verdict".
 
Yet, medicine progresses.  LASIK is "legal"; what greater advantage could a hitter have than being able to buy Ted Williams' legendary 20/10 eyes? 
 
Who knows what career numbers Kiner, Rosen, and Koufax could have put up if they had had the advantage of today's "sports medicine"?  Or for that matter, imagine Ruth with a personal trainer and a Josh Hamilton "chaperone".  And speaking about illegal drugs ... was or was not Ruth a conspicuous consumer of alcohol during a time when it was illegal?
 
(BTW: why does Reggie Jackson, who I remember as being of bulging muscles, look so skinny now?  Videotape must have a slimming effect).
 
All in all I just hate seeing Bonds and Clemens being proscuted (and persecuted) for an alleged crime which Bill Clinton actually committed on videotape!  Enough.
 
And then there is this Braun kid.  If you listen carefully to his statement there was a dark hint that he may have been a victim of anti-Semitism.  If true, that would really make this Presbyterian sick.  
 
False positives do happen.  Braun's was suspiciously egregious.  A 30 guage needle can easily penitrate a "triple sealed" sample undetected if one is not suspecting such.  Something is "dirty" here and my hunch is that it ain't Braun.  It'll all come out in the wash.  In the meantime, let's PLAY BALL!
<message edited by MetroplexJim on Mon, 02/27/12 8:48 AM>
 
#61
    saps

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    Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Mon, 02/27/12 12:49 PM (permalink)
    Jim- it's possible that Braun ingested something he didn't know about, but my understanding is that results that high indicate synthetics.  As far as Braun playing the anti-semitism card in all this, it speaks more about Braun than anyone else.  He seemed to toss that around with no evidence whatsoever.
     
    As far as Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and McGwire, it's quite clear what occurred, and while they weren't officially sanctioned, they are guilty in the court of public opinion.  They've hurt the game irreparably.  Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire broke a hallowed home record that was special, and they made a mockery of it.  It's too bad.
     
    #62
      The Travelin Man

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      Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Mon, 02/27/12 2:53 PM (permalink)
      I saw Ryan Braun play at the University of Miami - and he could flat out rake.  Some said that it was due to the metal bats and he may not hit as well to play a corner infield position in the majors.  Then, I saw him play locally for the Milwaukee High Single-A affiliate here in Brevard County (FL).  He could still rake, but then his knock was that he might not have the glove to play 3B.  
       
      Here it is a few years later and there are people with whom I have attended baseball games who will tell you that I have been all over Ryan Braun as a baseball prospect since damn near high school.  The guy can play. Period. He has no bigger non-Brewer fan supporter than me.
       
      BUT...it sure as hell seems like he cheated. If he did, he should be suspended. Getting off on a technicality is like beating a traffic ticket - he may not pay the fine, but no one believes he wasn't speeding.
       
      #63
        MetroplexJim

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        Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Mon, 02/27/12 4:14 PM (permalink)
        saps


        Jim- it's possible that Braun ingested something he didn't know about, but my understanding is that results that high indicate synthetics.  As far as Braun playing the anti-semitism card in all this, it speaks more about Braun than anyone else.  He seemed to toss that around with no evidence whatsoever.
         
        Anything is possible - including my "30 guage needle theory" which is supported by the fact that his test was so wildly anomalous. 
         
        All any of us know at this point is that MLB has an appeal process and Braun prevailed.  I'm sure that more will come out.  My "take" after watching Braun's statement is that he didn't look at all happy after "beating the rap".  He was pi$$ed.  And he isn't done investigating. 
         
        Re: his thinly veiled allusion to anti-Semitism.  Well, anything is possible.  I didn't even know that he was a Jew until I looked him up on Baseball Reference and saw that is nickname is "The Hebrew Hammer".  In a strange way I think this even gives him more credibility as why would he do anything to sully his being on a very short and very distinguished list:  Greenberg, Rosen, and Koufax?
         
        saps
         

        As far as Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and McGwire, it's quite clear what occurred, and while they weren't officially sanctioned, they are guilty in the court of public opinion.  They've hurt the game irreparably.  Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire broke a hallowed home record that was special, and they made a mockery of it.  It's too bad.

         
        I agree entirely.
         
        Bonds broke two of Ruth's records that I thought would stand forever:  single season marks for walks and for slugging average. 
         
        Still, I wonder how much of that was the "real" Bonds and how much was due to "pharmaceutical augmentation" and LASIK.  Save for Joe Hardy and Roy Hobbs in the movies I've never seen anyone who hit like Bonds did for those several years.  Again, steroids may let you hit the ball a little farther but they don't help you lay the bat on the ball. 
         
        At age 39: struck out 41 times; walked 232 times.  That wasn't "just juicing". 
        <message edited by MetroplexJim on Mon, 02/27/12 5:40 PM>
         
        #64
          MetroplexJim

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          Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Mon, 02/27/12 4:36 PM (permalink)
          The Travelin Man


          BUT...it sure as hell seems like he cheated. If he did, he should be suspended. Getting off on a technicality is like beating a traffic ticket - he may not pay the fine, but no one believes he wasn't speeding.


          If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck ... it's a duck.
           
          This kid walks, talks, and plays like ... an innocent man.
           
          And he is an intelligent man with a $200 MM future cash flow who is mightily pi$$ed off.
           
          Stay tuned.
           
          #65
            MetroplexJim

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            Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 7:09 AM (permalink)
            Wow!  The Nats stepped up and signed my fellow Virginia Cavalier alum, Ryan Zimmerman, for a another eight years.  I hope he stays healthy.  He's a great kid, to boot.
             
            With Joe Hardy Bryce Harper about to explode on to the scene and a "repaired" Strasburg the future looks bright for the Nats, even though they paid Werth WAY too much.
             
            I just wish they had built their new park in Pentagon City (just across what we always called "the moat" - the Potomac - in Arlington, VA).  That "safe" site, also served by four Metro lines, would have gotten an annual gate of 3,000,000+.  As the RFK fiasco had already lost the city two teams you'da thunk they'd have better sense than to attempt yet another "urbal renewal project".  Oh well. 
            <message edited by MetroplexJim on Tue, 02/28/12 7:25 AM>
             
            #66
              The Travelin Man

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              Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 8:50 AM (permalink)
              MetroplexJim


              The Travelin Man


              BUT...it sure as hell seems like he cheated. If he did, he should be suspended. Getting off on a technicality is like beating a traffic ticket - he may not pay the fine, but no one believes he wasn't speeding.


              If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck ... it's a duck.

              I guess if we're going to talk in parables, where there's smoke, there's fire.
               
              #67
                ScreamingChicken

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                Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 9:04 AM (permalink)
                MetroplexJim


                With Joe Hardy Bryce Harper about to explode on to the scene and a "repaired" Strasburg the future looks bright for the Nats, even though they paid Werth WAY too much.


                Is Harper doing anything to adjust his attitude during the offseason?  With the reputation he's already made for himself I suspect he's going to get an extremely rude welcome to the big leagues unless he remakes his image somewhat.
                 
                #68
                  MetroplexJim

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                  Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 10:38 AM (permalink)
                  ScreamingChicken


                  MetroplexJim


                  With Joe Hardy Bryce Harper about to explode on to the scene and a "repaired" Strasburg the future looks bright for the Nats, even though they paid Werth WAY too much.


                  Is Harper doing anything to adjust his attitude during the offseason?  With the reputation he's already made for himself I suspect he's going to get an extremely rude welcome to the big leagues unless he remakes his image somewhat.

                  I didn't know he had "attitude/image issues".  That's unfortunate given what everyone thinks his potential is.  Maybe Zimmerman will be a good role model for him.
                   
                  #69
                    saps

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                    Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 1:14 PM (permalink)
                    Jim- Harper has a big attitude.  Scouts love his game, but think he's a complete jerk.
                     
                    #70
                      MetroplexJim

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                      Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 2:38 PM (permalink)
                      saps


                      Jim- Harper has a big attitude.  Scouts love his game, but think he's a complete jerk.


                      Oh no!  The second coming of Barry Bonds!
                       
                      And, he's playing ball in a city which leads the nation is most jerks per capita.
                       
                      In all seriousness though I hope he doesn't go down the same road as Josh Hamilton did his first few years.  That was a crying shame; Lord only knows how good he could have been had he been "clean" from the beginning.  I'm not implying that Harper has any substance issues, but Hamilton freely says that he became a jerk from having his a$$ kissed so much for being a "can't miss" prospect.  Harper certainly has had that in spades.
                       
                      #71
                        MetroplexJim

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                        Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 3:02 PM (permalink)
                        saps


                        Jim- Harper has a big attitude.  Scouts love his game, but think he's a complete jerk.


                        saps, you are right!  I searched "Bryce Harper's bad attitude" and got 12,700 hits.  This one is a gem:
                         
                        Kevin Goldstein says in Baseball Prospectus...
                        "It's impossible to find any talent evaluator who isn't blown away by Harper's ability on the field, but it's equally difficult to find one who doesn't genuinely dislike the kid. One scout called him among the worst amateur players he's ever seen from a makeup standpoint, with top-of-the-scale arrogance, a disturbingly large sense of entitlement, and on-field behavior that includes taunting opponents. 'He's just a bad, bad guy,' said one front-office official. 'He's basically the anti-Joe Mauer.'"
                         

                         
                        #72
                          CajunKing

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                          Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 3:33 PM (permalink)
                          This weekend is the first games of the 2012 season.
                           
                          HOT DAWG & A BAG O PEANUTS!
                           
                          Now I know we Cubs fans have to have patience, but COME ON ALREADY!
                           
                          Looking at their 40 man roster....... (Ohmmmmm, Ohmmmmm, Ohmmmm channeling inner peace)
                           
                          all I can say is (channeling Harry Carrey) "HOLY COW"
                           
                          #73
                            leethebard

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                            Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 3:44 PM (permalink)
                            "Holy Cow" was the saying of Phil Rizutto during his long announcing career!!!(Not Harry Carrey)
                             
                            #74
                              ScreamingChicken

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                              Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 3:51 PM (permalink)
                              Harry Caray did indeed use "Holy cow!" as an exclamation, both with the White Sox and Cubs, and for all I know he was saying it in his days with the Cardinals and single season with Oakland.
                               
                              Caray claimed to have first used "Holy cow!" in the 1940s, which was back in Rizzuto's playing days and long before he sat behind a mike.
                               
                               
                              #75
                                The Travelin Man

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                                Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 4:21 PM (permalink)
                                Stop it.  You are trying to convince Lee that there are things that happen west of Hoboken - a fruitless endeavour, indeed.
                                 
                                #76
                                  CajunKing

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                                  Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 4:54 PM (permalink)
                                  I think Harry's 3 favorite words were:
                                   
                                  HOLY COW & BUDWEISER (the latter usually with a slight slur in the speech after the 5th inning)
                                   
                                  #77
                                    MetroplexJim

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                                    Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 6:38 PM (permalink)
                                    First heard Harry w. Jack Buck doing the Cards on KMOX at night.  His WGN games for the Cubs were a stitch, especially in the late innings.  R.I.P., Mr. Caray.
                                     
                                    #78
                                      leethebard

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                                      Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 10:10 PM (permalink)
                                      The Travelin Man


                                      Stop it.  You are trying to convince Lee that there are things that happen west of Hoboken - a fruitless endeavour, indeed.


                                      Good things????? Really?????? West of Jersey???????
                                       
                                      #79
                                        saps

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                                        Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Tue, 02/28/12 10:19 PM (permalink)
                                        Ugh.  Phil Rizzuto.  Good broadcaster, but commonly considered as one of the worst players in the Hall of Fame.  1600 hits, 38 career HR, .273 lifetime average.  Pretty good fielder, but nowhere near HOF caliber.
                                         
                                        #80
                                          MetroplexJim

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                                          Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Thu, 03/1/12 2:03 PM (permalink)
                                          saps


                                          Ugh.  Phil Rizzuto.  Good broadcaster, but commonly considered as one of the worst players in the Hall of Fame.  1600 hits, 38 career HR, .273 lifetime average.  Pretty good fielder, but nowhere near HOF caliber.


                                          I agree.  He's right up there with Tinker, Evers, and Chance.  And it's not like he stole bases or scored runs like Maury Wills, either.  And Wills was on a few Championship teams, too.
                                           
                                          #81
                                            ScreamingChicken

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                                            Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Fri, 03/2/12 9:08 AM (permalink)
                                            The Brewers are trying something different this year by offering 3 games where 2 sections are peanut-controlled to accomodate those with allergies.  The idea was suggested by an 8-year-old boy whose allergies have prevented him from attending games.
                                             
                                            Brad
                                             
                                            #82
                                              Foodbme

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                                              Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 3:11 AM (permalink)
                                              If you're REALLY, AND I MEAN REALLY, into Baseball, you need to become a member of The Society of American Baseball Research.
                                              www.sabr.org
                                              This group lives and breeathes baseball. They just moved their headquarters from Cleveland to Phoenix:
                                              SABR 4455 E. Camelback Rd Ste D-140, Phoenix, AZ 85018 Phone: (800) 969-7227
                                              Fax: (602) 595-5690 There are Local Chapters all over America.
                                              I heard the Executive Director, Marc Appleman, on TV the other night explain why they moved:
                                              1. The Cactus League has 15 teams here during Spring Training.
                                              2. Over 400 current and retired big league players have their homes out here
                                              3. College baseball is strong out here
                                              4. There's a Developmental Arizona Fall League of Minor League players here.
                                              5. You don't need a snow shovel to get to work!
                                              6. "America's Team", The Diamondacks are here.
                                              Seriously, if you love baseball, you'll love SABR 
                                              If you're into the baseball numbers, stats and analytics, you may want to come out and catch some Spring Training games and attend the Analytics Conference 3/15-17:
                                              http://sabr.org/analytics
                                              <message edited by Foodbme on Sat, 03/3/12 3:34 AM>
                                               
                                              #83
                                                leethebard

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                                                Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 8:46 AM (permalink)
                                                "America's Team"??????
                                                 
                                                #84
                                                  JRPfeff

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                                                  Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 8:48 AM (permalink)
                                                  Anyone remember Uecker's Pukers?
                                                   
                                                  #85
                                                    MetroplexJim

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                                                    Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 9:33 AM (permalink)
                                                    leethebard


                                                    "America's Team"??????


                                                    Evidently those who live in the irrigated desert suffer from the same myopia as NFL fans here in Dallas. 
                                                     
                                                    Sarcasm aside (I can't help myself), I think that the D-Backs are a well-managed organization with a wonderful climate-controlled ballpark that has had remarkable success in their short history.
                                                     
                                                    And foodbeme is right: the Cactus League is Heaven for the snowbirds - 15 teams within such short distances between them.  
                                                     
                                                    #86
                                                      MetroplexJim

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                                                      Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 10:02 AM (permalink)
                                                      IMHO, the most one-sided trade last season netted the Rangers the 36 year-old Koji Uehara (he of the 33.75 post-season ERA) and gave the Orioles two young studs:  Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter.  I heard yesterday that the O's are going to start Hunter opening day and Davis, great defensively at 1B, has "warehouse power".
                                                       
                                                      Any Orioles fans out there willing to thank the Rangers for that foolishness?  This trade will go down, together with getting Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas, as the best trade in O's history.  Congratulations, you hit the Lottery on a dollar ticket!
                                                       
                                                      #87
                                                        Foodbme

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                                                        Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 2:37 PM (permalink)
                                                        leethebard


                                                        "America's Team"??????

                                                        We can claim it, we don't have to prove it!!!
                                                         
                                                        #88
                                                          leethebard

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                                                          Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 3:43 PM (permalink)
                                                          Sure, sure...anything the Arizona Republic(an) says, I guess is true!!!
                                                           
                                                          #89
                                                            JRPfeff

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                                                            Re:"Hey Batter Batter, Sah WING Batter" Baseball 2012 Sat, 03/3/12 5:16 PM (permalink)
                                                            Can't you just settle for America's Sheriff?
                                                             
                                                            #90
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