Wine Sales in Grocery Stores

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Cosmos)

Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:55:32 GMT

Status Quo is safe for now in NY, which makes me happy...too bad for Mr. Wegmans...

http://www.cnycentral.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=279732

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (seafarer john)

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:45:38 GMT

You've all heard me complain about the unavailability of Teachers Scotch in the Hudson Valley. Well, today Gail was going to Newburgh and I asked her to get me a bottle of Scotch - "I'd like Teachers, I said, but it's never available, so I'll take Ballantines - that's always on the shelf."

Lo and behold, Gail came home a few minutes ago with a bottle of Teachers. But guess what was absent from the shelves? You guessed it, Ballantines!!

I don't know how or why, but the distributers jerk us around like puppets on a string...

Cheers, John

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Fieldthistle)

Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:35:33 GMT

Hello All,
In Harrisonburg, Va., we have been able to get bottles of wine
from the state owned liquor store or anyone able to
get a beer and wine license. Most of my life only grocery
stores chose to sell bottles of wine and it was up to the buyer which
wine they chose. Forget getting advice on the best wine.
At restaurants you can buy a bottle and take
what you don't drink home.
In the last 5 years we have had over 5 wine shops and two
vineyards open in the area. That is where you get good advice
on which wine to choose. At least 2 wine shops have went out
of business. Most of the wine shops and the vineyards have weekly free wine-tasting
where they are pushing certain wines and always free with their
knowledge. With the bad economy, I fear more of the wine shops
will fold. It is an enjoyable experience to visit them verses the
beer and wine aisle at a grocery store.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Michael Hoffman)

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:50:22 GMT

kozel

Michael Hoffman

Are you kidding? We're talking about a place where they can't tell the difference between parsley and eggplant.

Recycling an old punch line, "No one eats parsley."

I do.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Ort. Carlton.)

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:49:09 GMT

kozel

Michael Hoffman
Recycling an old punch line, "No one eats parsley."

Dearfolk,
But I LOVE parsley! I could eat an entire bundle of it... seriously.
Ensaladifically, Ort. Carlton in Leafy Green Athens, Georgia.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Ort. Carlton.)

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:46:27 GMT

joerogo
seafarer john
... The State mandated three tier system....

Dearfolk,
   Interestingly enough, this system was devised originally in Colonial days as a means of avoiding the English "tied house" system of control... an Independence thing, as it were. -- I think New Jersey did it first, as a matter of fact... in like 1734, maybe earlier.
   While there are a growing number of "free houses" in England now, the tied system still exists and pub licensees are compelled to sell the products of one brewer to the complete exclusion of all others in many cases.
   I'd hate to have to drink in places that only sold Olde English 800 Ice Tall Boys, wouldn't you? Well, without the cursed three-tier system, Sandersville, Georgia would be waist deep in 'em.
      Micro-Thirstily, Ort. Carlton in Well-Serviced (even if by the three tiers) Athens, Georgia.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Ort. Carlton.)

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:34:42 GMT

Michael Hoffman
Cosmos

Why not let brake and muffler shops sell wine?

While I don't know if they still do, I remember gas stations selling liquor and beer in California in the '50s....

Dearfolk,
   The auto parts store in Gibson, Georgia (in Glascock County) sells beer. And fishing supplies. If you want wine, you have to go to the convenience store down the street (they sell beer, too, but have only a small selection).
   In Alabama, there is a beauty shop that also sells beer. It's in a double-wide trailer on a county line (I think it's in Coosa County). Apparently Coosa County allows beer sales in any licensed business in the county that qualifies and asks for one. State law does not disallow it. There is a garage in Weogufka, Alabama with a beer cooler. But I've seen a photo of the beauty-shop-in-a-double-wide-with-a-beer-sign-outside. Gad, I can't help but wonder what those people do with hair....
   Gas stations in Bibb County (Macon) can sell beer. Georgia law allows it, but I've never seen it done anywhere else.
   Gracious, it makes me wonder if there's a funeral home in Coosa County with a beer license... there's a taxidermist....
      Unmorosely Maltosely, Ort. Carlton in 30601-land.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Ort. Carlton.)

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:25:31 GMT

mayor al
In my train of thought State Stores would be unconstitutional!

Mr. Mayor,
   I'm inclined to agree with you.
I'm just grateful to live in a state where we don't have that situation. Y'all correct me, but I think this is the rundown: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Alabama, Ohio, Utah, South and North Dakota, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Iowa have state stores. North Carolina has city and county stores. South Carolina has private stores that are state-regulated, and the state handles distribution. The rest have private stores.
   I was amazed to learn that West Virginia has private stores that are allowed (by local option) to open on Sundays. We can't even buy beer on Sundays in Georgia!
      Optionally Amusedly, Ort. Carlton in Legally-Wet Athens, Georgia.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Ort. Carlton.)

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:17:56 GMT

Twinwillow
Grocery stores all over California sell beer, wine and spirits. Including corner mom & pop's and convenience stores. And, if there're open, they can sell alcohol, 24/7/365.

Twinwillow,
   My understanding is that California allows sales between 6:00 A. M. and 2:00 A. M. every day of the year, but not 24 hours, unlike Nevada.
   Oddly enough, Georgia allows beer and wine sales 24/6 (except for Sunday), unless local ordinance forbids it. You can buy beer and wine in supermarkets in Atlanta 24/6 and liquor until midnight 6 nights a week... pretty progressive for the Bible Belt, but STILL no Sunday sales (alas).
      Unbluely, Ort. Carlton in Tolerable Athens, Georgia.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Ort. Carlton.)

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:13:11 GMT

Michael Hoffman
Cosmos
Michael Hoffman

Are you kidding? We're talking about a place where they can't tell the difference between parsley and eggplant.

Dearfolk,
   ...Or distinguish among scrapple, goetta, and/or livermush/liver pudding.
   Oh, Mr. Hoffman... just imagine what would happen if you asked where they keep the parsnips....
      Discriminately Undiscriminating (I'll eat it all!), Ort. Carlton in Omnivorous Athens, Georgia.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (kozel)

Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:50:57 GMT

Michael Hoffman

Are you kidding? We're talking about a place where they can't tell the difference between parsley and eggplant.

Recycling an old punch line, "No one eats parsley."

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (CCinNJ)

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:29:32 GMT

Honeymoon loopholes!

Hopefully not the case. It would be a disaster, for the little guys.

For example, a chain that is not based in NY,( but a state where the purchasing agents & distribution center is located), is allowed to transport & supply NY based selling entities, around and/or through the NY purchasing law (but taxed by NY of course). Meanwhile, back at the ranch (for NY based local business operators) no concessions, to keep up with the Jones'.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Cosmos)

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:40:37 GMT

joerogo

seafarer john

The real culprit in New York State is the distributors - they have a stranglehold on every alcoholic product sold in the state. Any winery should be allowed to sell directly to retailers, thus saving us about 25 - 50 % per bottle.

My favorite blended Scotch, Teachers, is generally unavailable in liquor stores in my area of NY because the distributors have decided not to carry it - and they have total control over what gets onto the shelves of liquor stores.

Cheers, John

Good point John,

The State mandated three tier system keeps prices unnecessarily inflated. And they can make or break a small wine or spirts company.

In the article I read, the local shop owner felt the big corporations would be able to go around the distributors and buy direct, further disadvantaging the small guys. I'm not sure this is possible unless they are based outside of NY...

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (CCinNJ)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:33:14 GMT

Joe, when you are in my hood...I will take you here...

http://www.sparrowine.com/home.html

My favorite place. A fine example of what really makes NJ fortunate, with the existing system.

You can go there, and strike up any conversation about wines and/or spirits, pairings...etc. and be fascinated, for hours!!! Even when you know plenty, there is always something "new" to discuss....as the subject of fine wine, is always evolving, rather than just existing.

Check out the staff profiles.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (joerogo)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:03:40 GMT

Cosmos

There was a good article on the cover of the local paper last night, unfortunately they didn't post it on their website so I can't share it. They interviewed a couple of the small shop owners in the Cortland area and they are very worried. The State put out an estimate of immediate income potential from licensing alone. One shop owner points out, that income will ultimately drop as the weaker stores close...

I think there would be short term gain in jobs as stores build out wine departments. I can't see that much job growth at the local wineries..its not like people will suddenly drink more wine because its in Wegmans or Price Chopper. I'm just not buying the argument that this will boost the state in the long run...just the large corporations (who do a little state boosting in their own right...wink wink..nudge nudge...). This seems like a quick band-aid to the state's current problems, that will have a longer term negative affect on wine store owners and consumers like me.

I am on record as opposing this as I have signed a petition, beyond that and sending a few e-mails, all I can do is sit back and hope for the best right now. Our Gov is bent on raising state income anyway he can (I'd like to see him focus a little on cutting state waste, but that's another story...) so I'm not optimistic for the status quo..

I respect your opinion and your activism. I think a similar bill was voted down in MA. last year.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (joerogo)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:00:10 GMT

seafarer john

The real culprit in New York State is the distributors - they have a stranglehold on every alcoholic product sold in the state. Any winery should be allowed to sell directly to retailers, thus saving us about 25 - 50 % per bottle.

My favorite blended Scotch, Teachers, is generally unavailable in liquor stores in my area of NY because the distributors have decided not to carry it - and they have total control over what gets onto the shelves of liquor stores.

Cheers, John

Good point John,

The State mandated three tier system keeps prices unnecessarily inflated. And they can make or break a small wine or spirts company.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Cosmos)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:50:48 GMT

There was a good article on the cover of the local paper last night, unfortunately they didn't post it on their website so I can't share it. They interviewed a couple of the small shop owners in the Cortland area and they are very worried. The State put out an estimate of immediate income potential from licensing alone. One shop owner points out, that income will ultimately drop as the weaker stores close...

I think there would be short term gain in jobs as stores build out wine departments. I can't see that much job growth at the local wineries..its not like people will suddenly drink more wine because its in Wegmans or Price Chopper. I'm just not buying the argument that this will boost the state in the long run...just the large corporations (who do a little state boosting in their own right...wink wink..nudge nudge...). This seems like a quick band-aid to the state's current problems, that will have a longer term negative affect on wine store owners and consumers like me.

I am on record as opposing this as I have signed a petition, beyond that and sending a few e-mails, all I can do is sit back and hope for the best right now. Our Gov is bent on raising state income anyway he can (I'd like to see him focus a little on cutting state waste, but that's another story...) so I'm not optimistic for the status quo..

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Twinwillow)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:09:52 GMT

Similar problem here in Texas. The "distributors" and retailers have a lock on sales so no alcohol can be purchased by a consumer from an out of state retailer. We can order from a winery but not from a retailer.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (seafarer john)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:56:16 GMT

The real culprit in New York State is the distributors - they have a stranglehold on every alcoholic product sold in the state. Any winery should be allowed to sell directly to retailers, thus saving us about 25 - 50 % per bottle.

My favorite blended Scotch, Teachers, is generally unavailable in liquor stores in my area of NY because the distributors have decided not to carry it - and they have total control over what gets onto the shelves of liquor stores.

Cheers, John

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (CCinNJ)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:41:43 GMT

I understand that issue, in PA. The system that has been in place in NJ, works very well. It is competitive amongst quality providers, and VERY reasonable in price. It would simply cut the very tight bottom-line for the reasonable market, that already exists. The only benefit would make the cheap stuff a little cheaper (and more popular), and one more thing to have to wait for, at the Supermarket. In turn, the cost to operate and stock, on quality level become more expensive, and limited (in quality selection). "Sorry, we now need to keep up with 7-11 so we will no longer carry any quality slower sellers, and we cannot afford the service (with sense) that you have been accustomed to, for all these years" No thank you. Not worth it, in NJ. It is not broke here, so don't tinker, with it.

Yes Joe...you are correct. NJ is heaven!!

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (joerogo)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:12:35 GMT

Good point CC. I guess we can say "It's like what Home Depot has done for the local lumberyards". Many have closed, but the ones that remained are stronger and better positioned in their marketplace.

I just look at Pa. with their state owned stores. No competition, no selection,always the wrong vintage, high prices, terrible store hours, lack of locations, etc. Then I walk into The Wine Library or Wine Legend in New Jersey and it's like heaven.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (CCinNJ)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:41:41 GMT

In NJ, there is a limitation as far as grocers carrying alcohol. I think the limit is two licences per grocery market chain, (in total) for chains operating in NJ. It is usually always in a seperate (entrance) or seperate designated room that is gated off, during off hours. Like NY, NJ is considering expanding the policy, and relaxing the limitations.

Since I never been a customer of a liquor "chain" it will make no difference to me. What I do not get from a distributor, I will continue to buy from a specialty retailer. They already have my loyalty, and would rather continue the relationship, than buy the booze, at the grocery store.

During my travels, I have encountered many states with different policies. I already do my specialized (personal) shopping for many products/services outside of the Supermarket. No fruit, vegetables, meats, seafoods, and most bakery products are purchased at specialty retailers. I have seen what the"competitive" (in price not knowledge or service) market has done to many of these specialty providers, and I would rather not see it happen to/in one more area.

I know it is easy to say "they will not go away" but this is not always the case. Butchers, bakers, seafood markets, and fruit stands, are very rare, these days. If the specialty retailers lose the customers, they lose the market. They no longer have funds to stock the high end items, and the market becomes limited. It dumbs down the market. People buy what they see, and they see a bunch of movers and fast sellers, from buyers who do not know their ass from their elbow. Number chunchers.. The biggest names, and the most popular sellers. Jack Daniels, Bacardi, and Absolut...period.

It most certainly also has an ill effect on the restaurant industry, These very "generic" names are now used...in the terminology. Many people only know rum as Bacardi. Like no other rum exists. Sure, many people still know, the other options. They usually are the customers who either have existing knowledge in "life" or have existing relationships in the market, and not on the shelf (or with the service), of the local grocer.

In my mind it is the same "protective interest" that limits the big chain restaurants from overwhelming the restaurant market. They have been zoned out, of my city. I live in one of (if not) the most densely populated areas of the country. There are 70,000 residents, and we have one restaurant chain (not fast food)...a Houlihan's. One Mc Donald's, one BK, several Subway and Pizza chains, gone. Plenty of diners, local restaurants, pizza parlors, etc. very popular, quite established, and very busy!!

If price is the only factor, the DOLLAR MENU RULES!!! People only get to know good food, when it exists, and is available.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Michael Hoffman)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:53:49 GMT

Independent wine shops abound in the Columbus area, despite the fact that the many supermarkets here are wine sellers, too.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Davydd)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:03:46 GMT

joerogo is right. Competition could make them better. Independent wine shops will not go away, but if grocery stores start selling wine then the independent wine shops will start differentiating with better wine selections and much better service since they will no longer be able to be indifferent to customer needs. Granted many independents may go out of business but those would have been only the ones filling a mass market need and grocery stores will do that better.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (joerogo)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:20:11 GMT

Cosmos

Thanks, that's the info I am looking for. Maybe I am overreacting, but I do fear the loss of the shops I frequent...Believe me its taken forever for a reasonable selection of good wines to reach Cortland NY...I don't want to have to drive to Syracuse if I need one...I'd probably crack it open and finish it before I got home..Then the wife gets mad and its downhill from there..

Cosmos, No matter what, keep supporting your local shops. The competition will only make them better

I buy the bulk of my wine in small shops throughout NY, NJ and MA. They do such a great job compared to "The Peoples Republic of Pennsylvania" Wine and Spirts Shops.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Ort. Carlton.)

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:45:48 GMT

Dearfolk,
   This is a debate going on right now in Tennessee: to allow wine sales in supermarkets. As it stands now, you have to buy wine in liquor stores or from a winery, and the stores can only operate in "wet" jurisdictions. Beer licenses alone are handled by the city or county governments.
   Here in Georgia, beer and wine licenses are handled locally and liquor is sold in stores in "wet" jurisdictions. Beer and unfortified wine are available in most places now, including supermarkets.
   If I wanted really good wine, I would go to a liquor store.
      Unwhiningly, Ort. in 30601-Land.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Cosmos)

Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:17:23 GMT

Thanks, that's the info I am looking for. Maybe I am overreacting, but I do fear the loss of the shops I frequent...Believe me its taken forever for a reasonable selection of good wines to reach Cortland NY...I don't want to have to drive to Syracuse if I need one...I'd probably crack it open and finish it before I got home..Then the wife gets mad and its downhill from there..

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (tfrielin)

Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:58:32 GMT

I grew up in Alabama in the '60s when you could only buy wine and spirits (and I guess beer too?) in what we called the State Stores--Alabama Beverage Control (ABC) Stores. It was a demeaning experience as there were display cases on the left and right walls and a counter straight ahead.

You had to make your pick from the selections in the display cases and order at the front counter where the clerk would disappear into the back room and retrieve your bottle. They evidently made it as unpleasant an expereince as possible to telegraph the message that ALCOHOL IS BAD and You are a bad person for buying it.

So imagine my surprise when I was in Florida in 1973 and went to a Publix where they had a fabulous selection of wine and beer right here on the grocery store shelves!

I'm glad those old ABC Store days are long gone and I can buy my Mondavi Woodbridge Sauvingon Blanc in the grocery store. The practice had not destrotyed the small, upscale wine stores in any of the three states I have inhabited my adult life (Al, GA, and FL) and I doubt it will. Wine stores exist because there are wine afficianadoes who want and will pay for a vintage wine.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Michael Hoffman)

Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:53:38 GMT

Cosmos

Why not let brake and muffler shops sell wine?

While I don't know if they still do, I remember gas stations selling liquor and beer in California in the '50s. I suppose brake and muffler shops could do it just as well as gas stations.

Re:Wine Sales in Grocery Stores (Davydd)

Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:59:17 GMT

Cosmos,

With your logic all those states that allow wine sales in groceries simply would not enjoy the selection you presume to enjoy now. That does not appear to be the case.