Unpasteurized Cider

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (tmiles)

Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:39:31 GMT

UncleVic

WarToad

Greymo

Does anyone know if the "uv treated" cider fements like the unpasteurized does?

Add a dash of champaign yeast and give it 2 weeks in a cool basement, you'll have your buzz going in no time.

....
Thats one thing I miss about Michigan, my buddies apple orchard... No more fresh squeezed cider.. No more fresh off the tree apples for pie.. (and neither was UV, Pasteurized or Pesticide treated).

Are there apple trees in Florida, or am I stuck fermenting oranges and mango's now??

Apples will grow as far south as Orlando (at least) if you plant "low chill" kinds. Most of them were developed in Israel. "Anna" and "Ein Shemir" (sp?) are two of the most popular. You will need to plant 2 (3 is better) for pollination. Several companies specialize in low chill apples.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (rebeltruce)

Thu, 03 Dec 2009 06:22:08 GMT

I've got 5 gallons of Apple Wine or Apfelwein going now, along with a 5 gallon batch of sweet cider should end up tasting simliar to Hornsby's, and a 5 gallon batch of a recipe called Thor's Hammer.

Pasteurization doesn't really affect fermentation...it's the preservatives you've got to watch out for. So long as your cider or AJ only contains juice, and vitamin C you are set to go. It can even be from concentrate, although 100% juice not from concentrate is my choice.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (UncleVic)

Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:00:10 GMT

WarToad

Greymo

Does anyone know if the "uv treated" cider fements like the unpasteurized does?

Add a dash of champaign yeast and give it 2 weeks in a cool basement, you'll have your buzz going in no time.

Then after 2 weeks, give it a good pinch of yeast nutrient, 1 cup of sugar, and buzz would be an understatement a couple weeks later!!

Thats one thing I miss about Michigan, my buddies apple orchard... No more fresh squeezed cider.. No more fresh off the tree apples for pie.. (and neither was UV, Pasteurized or Pesticide treated).

Are there apple trees in Florida, or am I stuck fermenting oranges and mango's now??

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (tmiles)

Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:33:49 GMT

We have been buying fresh unpasturized cider from Dartmouth Orchards on Westport Rd in Dartmouth, Mass. In this state unpasturized cider can be sold direct retail only (no wholesale or resale). It is an excellent product, and got better as the season went on. The Thanksgiving product was great. They are open up through Christmas.

I still have our old press, and may start making cider again next year. I had been under the (wrong) impression that I had to pasturize for all sales.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:21:57 GMT

Greymo

I believe that we pay $4.95 for our cider and it is worth every penny. The kids had it this morning with pancakes and their grandfather's pure New York State maple syrup.

Why did they take their poor old grandfather's syrup away from him?

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Greymo)

Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:15:41 GMT

I believe that we pay $4.95 for our cider and it is worth every penny. The kids had it this morning with pancakes and their grandfather's pure New York State maple syrup.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (NYPIzzaNut)

Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:06:05 GMT

Our gallon of UV treated cider at A & M Farm Orchard in Midland OH goes for $4.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (mjambro)

Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:50:39 GMT

Picked up my second gallon ($6) of unpasturized cider of the season at Phantom Farms in Cumberland, RI this past week. Simply Outstanding. I was curious to see if the second gallon would be as good as the first. It was.

Ran out mid week and bought some pasturized cider from Jaswells at a local grocer. After having the real stuff, it was a poor substitute.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Greymo)

Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:49:53 GMT

Baughers is where we purchased our cider the other day. We picked 60 pounds of apples first which is really fun for the kids. They were ready for cider after all that picking!

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (eruby)

Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:41:10 GMT

The excellent unpasteurized cider at Baugher's in Westminster, MD has this:

"FDA required warning: This product has not been pasteurized and, therefore, may contain harmful bacteria that can cause serious illness in children, the elderly, and persons with weakened immune systems."

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (rebeltruce)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:19:28 GMT

My Pap used to sit a couple jugs out on the backporch, a week or so and look out! He'd poke some holes in the lids so that the jugs wouldn't explode.

A glass or two and all was right with the world.....LOL!

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:07:26 GMT

WarToad

Michael Hoffman

WarToad

Greymo

Does anyone know if the "uv treated" cider fements like the unpasteurized does?

Add a dash of champaign yeast and give it 2 weeks in a cool basement, you'll have your buzz going in no time.

My father used to stick jugs of cider in a snowbank in our yard and it wouldn't be long before we had great hard cider.

That would have then been unpasturized cider with natural yeasts still alive.

Oh, right. I wasn't suggesting you could do that with pasturized cider. I was just talking about what my father used to do.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Greymo)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:22:08 GMT

Michael Hoffman

saps

You don't need to answer Hoffman. If he were truly concerned, he would have PM'd you instead of trying to make you foolish.

Just exactly whatinhell are you talking about?

I think it means that poor Saps has no sense of humor, or else had too many pre-dinner cocktails.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (WarToad)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:06:52 GMT

Michael Hoffman

WarToad

Greymo

Does anyone know if the "uv treated" cider fements like the unpasteurized does?

Add a dash of champaign yeast and give it 2 weeks in a cool basement, you'll have your buzz going in no time.

My father used to stick jugs of cider in a snowbank in our yard and it wouldn't be long before we had great hard cider.

That would have then been unpasturized cider with natural yeasts still alive.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:49:10 GMT

saps

You don't need to answer Hoffman. If he were truly concerned, he would have PM'd you instead of trying to make you foolish.

Just exactly whatinhell are you talking about?

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (saps)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:44:25 GMT

You don't need to answer Hoffman. If he were truly concerned, he would have PM'd you instead of trying to make you foolish.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:06:23 GMT

WarToad

Greymo

Does anyone know if the "uv treated" cider fements like the unpasteurized does?

Add a dash of champaign yeast and give it 2 weeks in a cool basement, you'll have your buzz going in no time.

My father used to stick jugs of cider in a snowbank in our yard and it wouldn't be long before we had great hard cider.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (WarToad)

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 15:56:38 GMT

Greymo

Does anyone know if the "uv treated" cider fements like the unpasteurized does?

Add a dash of champaign yeast and give it 2 weeks in a cool basement, you'll have your buzz going in no time.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:06:57 GMT

seafarer john

... so I don't think copywrite infringement is a big deal in this matter.

Cheers, John

It is if you're the one being sured.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (seafarer john)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:27:13 GMT

While I thank NYPIN for posting that report, I'm not about to read the whole damn thing and I doubt that more than two other roadfooders are up to the punishment - so I don't think copywrite infringement is a big deal in this matter.

Cheers, John

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (NYPIzzaNut)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:04:31 GMT

Indubitably.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Greymo)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:02:14 GMT

Does anyone know if the "uv treated" cider fements like the unpasteurized does?

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:31:33 GMT

NYPIzzaNut

Should I just post the link to it do you think (like members do here regularly and frequently to copyright protected sites and data?)

Here's the way it works: It is permissible to post 10 percent of a copyrighted work or 500 words, whichever is less, as long as you provide attribution. The safest way to post something that is copyrighted is to post an attributed sentence or two along with a link.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (NYPIzzaNut)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:07:18 GMT

Should I just post the link to it do you think (like members do here regularly and frequently to copyright protected sites and data?)

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:53:08 GMT

Just out of curiosity, why did you decide to violate a copyright by posting that report/abstract on Roadfood and opening up Roadfood for a lawsuit?

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (NYPIzzaNut)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:48:57 GMT

And from NY State:

http://www.nyapplecountry.com/cider.htm

Fresh pressed New York State apple cider is available all year long. Look for refreshing cider at your local farm market or supermarket. Remember that fresh cider can be used in many cooking recipes.

Is Cider Pasteurized or UV Treated?

Most New York State cider is either pasteurized or treated with Ultra Violet (UV) light. Both processes are approved by the Food and Drug Administration, (FDA).
The pasteurization process involves heating the freshly pressed cider to 160 degrees for a few seconds. The high temperature kills bacteria that might be there. The cider is then immediately cooled to prevent it from getting a "cooked" taste. This process is the same process used to pasteurize milk. When done properly, pasteurization does not affect the flavor of the cider. Consumer tests have indicated that people cannot tell the difference between the flavor of pasteurized and un-pasteurized cider. Also, the nutritional value does not change. Some people simply prefer to drink fresh cider without any heat treatment or added preservatives.
UV treatment is a non-thermal process that meets FDA guidelines to obtain a 5- log reduction of pertinent pathogens. This is equivalent to 99.999% safe. The UV or Ultra Violet treatment has the cider pass by an ultraviolet light which kills harmful bacteria. This process is called non-thermal because it does not heat up the cider. It is FDA approved and an equally safe alternative to heat pasteurization.
The New York Apple Association recommends drinking only pasteurized or UV treated fresh apple cider. This is to ensure that all consumers both young and old are protected against possible illness. Approximately 95% of the volume of cider currently produced in New York State is either pasteurized or UV treated.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (NYPIzzaNut)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:45:32 GMT

Furthermore:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/gmf-agm/appro/dec85_rev_nl3-eng.php

Imprimer | Taille du texte : P M G TG Aide

Ultraviolet light treatment of apple juice/cider using the CiderSure 3500

Novel Food Information

Health Canada has notified Moore Orchards that it has no objection to the sale of unpasteurized and unfermented apple juice and cider products which have been treated with the CiderSure 3500 Ultraviolet (UV) light unit. The Department has conducted a comprehensive assessment of UV treated apple juice/cider according to its Guidelines for the Safety Assessment of Novel Foods. These Guidelines are based upon internationally accepted principles for establishing the safety of novel foods.

Background:

The following provides a summary of the notification from Moore Orchard and the evaluation by Heath Canada and contains no confidential business information.

1. Introduction

The CiderSure 3500 UV light unit has been developed to treat apple juice/cider with UV light to reduce the levels of microbial pathogens in juice products. The intent of the CiderSure 3500 is specifically to reduce the levels of Escherichia coli 0157:H7, an organism linked to various food borne outbreaks caused by the consumption of contaminated fresh apple juice/cider.
The assessment conducted by Food Directorate evaluators determined the effectiveness of the CiderSure 3500 UV light unit in reducing the bacterial load of apple juice/cider, how the composition and nutritional quality of UV light-treated apple juice/cider compares to untreated and pasteurized apple juice/cider, and the potential for toxicological or chemical concerns associated with the use of UV light on apple juice/cider.
Apple juice or cider treated with UV light to reduce the levels of microbial pathogens is considered a novel food according to part (b) of the definition of novel food, i.e.
"b) a food that has been manufactured, prepared, preserved or packaged by a process that
a. has not been previously applied to that food, and
b.causes the food to undergo a major change;"
Here the major change is in the microbiological safety of the food.

2. Description of the Novel Process

The CiderSure 3500 unit uses UV lamps to expose a thin film of apple juice/cider flowing through tubes under turbulent conditions. Sensors monitor the amount of UV light that is being applied to the juice/cider and a computer interface determines the appropriate flow rate to achieve a significant reduction in the microbial load of the juice/cider based on this UV penetration data. The UV unit is programmed to compensate for differences that may exist in apple ciders such as total solids and colour as increased solid content and darker colour due to extended storage of apples that can decrease UV penetration.

3. Microbiology

Ultraviolet light has been extensively used for more than 40 years as an effective treatment for the elimination of various microorganisms in water. Wavelengths of UV light in the range of 200 to 280 nm have been demonstrated to effectively inactivate bacteria and viruses due to DNA mutations induced by the absorption of UV light by DNA molecules.
The petitioner has presented data demonstrating the reduction of E. coli O157:H7 in fresh apple cider using the CiderSure UV light unit. Raw, unprocessed apple cider inoculated with strains of E. coli O157:H7 were run through the CiderSure 3500 according to the manufacturer's instructions. Analysis of the UV treated cider found that the CiderSure 3500 was capable of achieving at least a 5-log reduction in the levels of E. coli. For safety reasons, a non-pathogenic surrogate E. coli strain which shows almost identical UV sensitivity to the pathogenic strains of E. coli O157:H7, is used to test all production units destined for the marketplace.

4. Dietary Exposure

The majority of apple juice and cider products sold in Canada are pasteurized using heat. A small percentage of these juice/cider products are not pasteurized and are commonly sold at roadside stands, country fairs, juice bars and on ice or in refrigerated display cases at grocery stores. The UV-treated apple juice and cider would be expected to be consumed in the same way as either the pasteurized or unpasteurized products on the market.

5. Nutrition

It is known that only certain vitamins are susceptible to degradation by UV light. The only vitamin of any potential significance in apples would be vitamin C which is not particularly sensitive to UV light. Raw apples, however, contain only a small amount of this vitamin and this is lost readily through exposure to heat, oxygen, and light during processing into juice. It is thus generally accepted that unfortified apple juice, even if unpasteurized, is not a significant source of vitamin C. Thus, the use of UV light treatment is not considered to pose any new nutritional safety concerns.

6. Chemistry/Toxicology

The effects of UV light on the major chemical components of food were evaluated to determine if there was any potential toxicological or chemical safety concerns associated with juice products that have undergone UV treatment. Data provided on photochemistry indicates that the only degradation products that would occur from UV treatment of juice/cider products are those that occur naturally from sunlight. UV treatment of water has been examined by several groups for by-product formation under actual disinfection conditions and studies using the Ames test have failed to find evidence of elevated mutagenic levels in treated waters. The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations contains a section (21 CFR 179.39) devoted to the conditions under which UV radiation may be safely applied to food. Provided the operating conditions of the lamps are within these constraints, there is no objection to the application of this process as proposed.

Conclusion:

Health Canada's review of the information presented in support of the CiderSure 3500 concluded that there are no human food safety concerns associated with the sale of unpasteurized and unfermented apple cider and juice that has been treated with the CiderSure 3500. The UV treatment can achieve a significant reduction in the microbial load of apple juice and cider products. It should be noted that this reduction does not mean elimination of pathogenic organisms, especially in cases where the original microbial load of the juice product was extremely high. Therefore, manufacturers should continue to take steps to limit the risk of contamination in their production process.
This opinion is solely with respect to the suitability of apple cider and juice treated using the CiderSure 3500 for sale as human food. It is the continuing responsibility of Moore Orchards to ensure that its products are in compliance with all applicable statutory and regulatory requirements. Any new information obtained which has potential health and safety implications should be forwarded to Health Canada for our consideration in order to ensure the continued safety and integrity of all novel foods available in the Canadian marketplace. The sale of a food which poses a hazard to the health of consumers would contravene the provisions of the Food and Drugs Act.
Issues related to the labelling of products and potential inspection activities associated with use of this novel process are addressed separately through existing regulatory processes administered by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

This Novel Food Information document has been prepared to summarize the opinion regarding the subject product provided by the Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Health Canada. This opinion is based upon the comprehensive review of information submitted by the petitioner according to the Guidelines for the Safety Assessment of Novel Foods.
(Également disponible en français)
For further information, please contact:
Novel Foods Section
Food Directorate
Health Products and Food Branch
Health Canada
Tunney's Pasture
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0L2 Telephone: (613) 941-5535
Facsimile: (613) 952-6400

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (NYPIzzaNut)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:27 GMT

Actually I guess if you want to get technical:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118770599/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Michael Hoffman)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:31:47 GMT

I'll be damned! They told me when I went to buy cider that state law prohibits selling unpasturized cider.

Thanks.

Re:Unpasteurized Cider (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:57:40 GMT

The problem is in the processing. You may get sick from a bad apple or head of lettuce, but it's just you and, maybe your family or guests (and you're likely to reject a piece that is rotting or otherwise in obviously bad shape). But press that one bad apple with thousands of others and you contaminate the whole batch, which will be consumed by many, many people.

The same thing happens with commercially-ground beef, which is why it's gotten harder to find a rare burger in restaurants. One contaminated batch gets mixed with thousands of pounds of good beef, contaminating the whole batch. If you grind your own beef, a rare burger is much safer - you're only at risk if the particular piece you're grinding is contaminated.