Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Tony Bad)

Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:45:58 GMT

mayor al

A scam is a scam is a scam.

I suggest that we close the subject to stop giving the guy the attention he apparently so actively seeks. That is a personal opinion from me, not an action order by a Moderator.

I agree Al

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (mayor al)

Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:15:03 GMT

A scam is a scam is a scam.

I suggest that we close the subject to stop giving the guy the attention he apparently so actively seeks. That is a personal opinion from me, not an action order by a Moderator.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (JRPfeff)

Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:29:33 GMT

TTM -

The ownership of the intellectual property on Roadfood is more complicated than you explain above. The following is from the site Rules of Conduct (emphasis added).

2. OWNERSHIP OF MESSAGES
Roadfood.com encourages the submission of material such as guides, articles, story's, editorials, and other creative "Submissions" that might be found useful by the Roadfood community. Authors of such material will retain their full rights to the work; Roadfood.com reserves the right to publish such submissions on our web site(s) unless the author requests otherwise.

Participant authorizes Roadfood.com to utilize, in any manner it sees fit and for eternity, the Submissions posted on the site, which shall become the property of Roadfood.com. Participant releases Roadfood.com from any and all claims or liability (now known or hereafter arising) in connection therewith, and agrees to indemnify Roadfood.com in connection therewith. Participant agrees and acknowledges that participation in the Roadfood.com site shall not give rise to any confidential, fiduciary, implied-in-fact, implied-in-law, contractual or other special relationship between Participant and Roadfood.com (other than the contractual relationship between Roadfood.com and Participant entered into by virtue of Participant's agreement to these Rules of Conduct.)

It doesn't take Matlock to figure out that someone has not complied with these rules. A Seinfeld food thread was instigated by ETR and active on Roadfood from 10/25 thru 11/27/09. Not coincidentally, several Seinfeld food entries were posted at ETR's blog starting on 12/18 and at Topcultured starting in early January.

I believe the postings at these two websites are in violation of the Roadfood terms of use and a violation of a copyright owned by Roadfood.com. Probably not a big deal if this was being done for fun. But each of these websites appear to be commercial endeavors.

jrp

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (trzhotel)

Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:05:20 GMT

One of the first things I noticed about ETR was that the majority of the places he went were so well known. I had heard of many places visited in New Mexico or Arizona. Most seem to have been featured on one of exactly two television shows. So many people here are obsesssed with the undiscovered places, it made ETR stick out.

I don't really have a problem with a sorta-professional internet marketing type putting up pictures. What struck me as odd about the Christmas giveaway was that they were giving out a gift bag of stuff, then asking for paypal donations in the same entry. Where would they have gotten all that schwag from anyway?:
http://eatingtheroad.wordpress.com/2009/12/06/win-over-250-in-swag-christmas-giveaway/

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (The Travelin Man)

Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:23:24 GMT

mar52

After thought....

TTM... So you went to his store and it was closed?

It was initially open, so I don't think that counts.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Wintem01)

Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:15:28 GMT

Thanks to all for the clarification. I stand, abashedly, corrected.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (surrycounty)

Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:48:33 GMT

Remember the old expression about "a wolf in sheep's clothing"?....

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (mar52)

Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:33:58 GMT

Exactly!

I was drawn in at the beginning because he was posting about things I knew personally. I could relate.
Then it started "feeling" strange.

For the last few weeks, this person has been sending his charts and links to his stuff to every food site imaginable. I Google his new name and he's everywhere.

He's done with us.

After thought....

TTM... So you went to his store and it was closed?

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (JRPfeff)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:49:49 GMT

I suggest that we no longer link to the ETR blog or that Topcultured site and refrain from clicking any of the existing links.

I see no reason to send traffic to either of those extremely lame websites.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (The Travelin Man)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:21:23 GMT

mar52

Dale, your posts weren't the only ones used.

Buffetbuster (Profile)
2008 Top 10 Breakfasts
2008 Top 10 Desserts
2008 Top 10 Burgers
2008 Top 13 BBQ Restaurants
List of Pies

Wanderingjew (Profile)
2008 Top 10 Restaurants
2008 Top 10 Standbys
2008 Top 10 Honorable Mentions
2008 Top 10 Desserts
2008 Top 4 Breakfasts
2008 Top 6 Sides

Ayersian (Profile)
Best of Cross-Continental

CajunKing (Profile)
List of Pies

Those weren't the only ones he used, either. He (I'll use "he" instead of he/she/it/they) had posted a few of my threads too, and I shot him a PM asking him to take them down. He didn't just re-post pictures (also called "hot linking"). He "grabbed" (took) my photos (as well as others'), edited them and then hosted them on his own web site for his own purposes. I don't know how anyone could NOT consider that to be stealing. This is an example:

The reality is that "hot linking" is a fairly common practice on the Internet. I would be willing to bet that to the true letter-of-the-law, it is also copyright violation - and I am not going to be so self-righteous as to say that I have never done it. Of course, there is usually no malicious intent involved, and often times credit is given as to where one found the photo or credit given to the photographer. Either way, the photo is not removed from the host site, edited and then re-posted elsewhere without permission - which is what was done here.

I sent the PM because I didn't like my "stuff" being used without my permission - least of all for a web site that I know nothing about. I don't know what plans he has for my photos or how many other he plans to take in the future. But, if I post something here on roadfood.com, that was my intended audience for what I chose to post. It's my words, my photos, in my context, etc.

EatingTheRoad sent me back a message - and apologized for misappropriating my material. He also took down the information that I requested. However, the rest of his message was pure BS - and I knew it at the time - and I should have called him on it publicly at the time. Instead, I just mentioned it to a few select friends. But, this is what he wrote....

....Just as a point, my intentions were not to "steal, swipe or plagiarize" your work I was just blown away by how great the food looked and how helpful the lists were so I decided to compile them neatly. In all honesty it was more an homage than anything. I do greatly appreciate and enjoy your trip reports. Further, just to note, there is no monetary or other gain intended from my blog, it is a personal log of my travels and is no way commercial. I also made sure to give all credit to the derivation of the lists and photos and was not trying to "play them off" as my own.....

The bolding is, obviously, mine. Of course he was in it for a monetary gain. I guess the idea of having a "store" on your web site is not about making money (the link has since been removed, but he was selling poster-sized versions of his flow charts). As has been evidenced by the tone of this thread, I don't think anyone had any trouble identifying that his goal from day one was to drive traffic from this site to his own site for the purpose of making money. I don't begrudge anyone making money - but, do it on your own work. If I wanted to have a blog of my own travels, I would. If I wanted to contribute something to another site, I would. It was not long after this message from him that he put up the PayPal donation button. I mentioned it to buffetbuster when it first went up - having felt vindicated that I correctly identified this dude for what he is/was. From Day One, he was attempting to build a brand of his own - and he did it successfully, too. He has parlayed his "personal log" of travels into a paid blogging gig. Good for him. But, I hope he keeps a better eye on how he uses other people's intellectual property, or he will end up getting people with some deeper pockets in trouble.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Scorereader)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:37:55 GMT

Wintem01

Michael Hoffman

The thing to remember is that the person/persons posting used photos that did not belong to them/him and poached stuff from others. In other words, the poster/posters cheated, stole and scammed. That ws clear from the beginning.

Being somewhat of a newbie to these things, is that necessarily wrong? I mean, these photos aren't copywrited, are they? Again, just curious. I don't normally post unless something stirs a particular passion. But even uncopywrited, is it simply considered bad taste to use photos from, say, a restaurant's website? Or if you went to a place and forgot to take photos or didn't have a camera with you or probably more common, ate it all before snapping a shot, can you not take a photo from someone else's review just to add a visual aspect to your commentary? Seems if it is on the internet it should be public property, If I can get someone's home address online, a picture of what they ate last night should be pretty harmless. Just my opinion, but honestly curious.

normally, when one can't correctly refer to copyright, one's understanding of copyright is equally as corrupted.

As MH pointed out, most of your assumptions about the use of works posted on the Internet are wrong.

Section 106 of 17 USC:

Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
(3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
(4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;
(5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and
(6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Michael Hoffman)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:04:09 GMT

You're kidding, of course.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Ralph Melton)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:59:58 GMT

EatingTheRoad is now posting at topcultured.com under the name Heesa Phadie. I feel that this name is some pun that I should interpret as "He's a ___", but I'm being dense and not figuring out how to fill in the blank. If the name was "Heesa Phudie", I'd read it as "He's a foodie", but the A is stymieing me.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (mar52)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:40:37 GMT

Cute, Tony. Pure Honesty!

Did you notice the number of hits his articles are getting?
If even a penny a click that's nice change.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Tony Bad)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:53:43 GMT

joerogo

So, I guess the consensus is that, Eating The Road isn't who he/she/they says they is/are. Hmmm..... I wonder who he/she/they really is/are?

My guess?

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (joerogo)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:35:07 GMT

So, I guess the consensus is that, Eating The Road isn't who he/she/they says they is/are. Hmmm..... I wonder who he/she/they really is/are?

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Tony Bad)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:15:13 GMT

mar52

This is his new board:

http://topcultured.com/

Yep, we were used.

Well this is interesting...check the comment

http://topcultured.com/honest-journalism/

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (surrycounty)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:44:33 GMT

Well, isn't this interesting. There's nothing that I enjoy more than finding out that I've had the wool pulled over my eyes. Nice going, pal.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (joerogo)

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:33:27 GMT

bill voss

thank you, tony.

BrownNoser

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (mar52)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:54:56 GMT

Tony I agree with you completely on that one.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (mar52)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:54:12 GMT

Dale, your posts weren't the only ones used.

Buffetbuster (Profile)
2008 Top 10 Breakfasts
2008 Top 10 Desserts
2008 Top 10 Burgers
2008 Top 13 BBQ Restaurants
List of Pies

Wanderingjew (Profile)
2008 Top 10 Restaurants
2008 Top 10 Standbys
2008 Top 10 Honorable Mentions
2008 Top 10 Desserts
2008 Top 4 Breakfasts
2008 Top 6 Sides

Ayersian (Profile)
Best of Cross-Continental

CajunKing (Profile)
List of Pies

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Tony Bad)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:51:26 GMT

mar52

As for what Tony posted. In the beginning I found ETR's posts interesting. Then I realized they were only posting a picture here and forcing me to go to their board.

I see what you are saying, but what I meant was that his/her/its posts mentioned quite a few places I never knew about. Whether the poster actually went there or not is certainly important, but the fact they were mentioned did allow me to discover some new spots. Even an unwound watch is right once or twice a day.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Tony Bad)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:46:51 GMT

wanderingjew

Tony Bad

Not sure what your point is WJ or why you quoted me before posting all that stuff, but as I said, all the posts on THIS site seem to have been made by one person. Whether they were accumulations of other people's work, I can't say.

Just wanted to point out why I deduced that that ETR's posts might be coming from more than just one person as it was ETR's website that referred to the plural

All I know is all the posts I checked came from one physical location.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (wanderingjew)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:41:33 GMT

Tony Bad

Not sure what your point is WJ or why you quoted me before posting all that stuff, but as I said, all the posts on THIS site seem to have been made by one person. Whether they were accumulations of other people's work, I can't say.

Just wanted to point out why I deduced that that ETR's posts might be coming from more than just one person as it was ETR's website that referred to the plural

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (wanderingjew)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:36:01 GMT

Davydd

Wintem01,

I think I have easily posted over a thousand photos to Roadfood.com. I did so voluntarily and every single one of them was taken by me or maybe a friend or my wife with my camera and settings if I happened to be in the photo itself. Each and every one of them is owned by me and technically, yes, I do own the copyright. Many of my photos have appeared elsewhere. It does not bother me as long as the poster of them at least acknowledge they had found it on the internet and did not try to claim the phone as their own. When someone does try to claim a photo then I consider that as crossing the line.

I realize photos are going to be ripped off. That's why I downsize my original to a smaller resolution and select a medium to low JPEG conversion. That not only makes them smaller in kilobytes so they load faster for your convenience in a message but also makes them non-commercially viable. The downside is my photos on my computer look a lot better than what gets posted. The upside is I can always prove I own the photo with the RAW format high resolution that is only in my possession.

We just found out in this thread that ETR did rip off wanderingjew's 2008 top 10 and posted them on the ETR blog site. He/she did acknowledge they were wanderingjew's photos but they were ripped off Roadfood.com without acknowledgment. In my online experience, I consider that wanderingjew owns the copyright of the photos and his commentary but Roadfood.com owns the body of the content of the whole thread and topic that wanderingjew voluntarily contributed to. However you look at it, it was ripped off unless wanderingjew volunteered them to the ETR blog as well. If not, to me, that is a total breach of etiquette and cast suspicion on all of ETR's uploads here.

Davydd

I was aware that ETR posted my best of list on his/hers/their blog. I've stated previously that "I" personally am not in this for the money, and do not intend to make a profit on this. I rarely spend time on the internet, other than roadfood, so it really doesn't matter to me. My photos have been used by others all over the internet, and I guess my opinion about the whole thing is "whatever" it doesn't mean its right or wrong for me personally, although I know others feel otherwise

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Tony Bad)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:35:34 GMT

Not sure what your point is WJ or why you quoted me before posting all that stuff, but as I said, all the posts on THIS site seem to have been made by one person. Whether they were accumulations of other people's work, I can't say.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Greymo)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:31:50 GMT

Lets face it; this guy was a damn thief...................I figured this out weeks ago

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (wanderingjew)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:31:08 GMT

Tony Bad

I must note that while I see comments about this poster being more than one person, all posts here seemed to originate from one computer in one location.

Eating The Road

On a journey to find out what the American road tastes like

About Future Stops Regional Foods Restaurant List

Eating all this food can become pricey and we're just lonely bloggers (not getting paid for this).

If you like what you read why not buy us a meal or two!

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (Davydd)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:23:26 GMT

Wintem01,

I think I have easily posted over a thousand photos to Roadfood.com. I did so voluntarily and every single one of them was taken by me or maybe a friend or my wife with my camera and settings if I happened to be in the photo itself. Each and every one of them is owned by me and technically, yes, I do own the copyright. Many of my photos have appeared elsewhere. It does not bother me as long as the poster of them at least acknowledge they had found it on the internet and did not try to claim the phone as their own. When someone does try to claim a photo then I consider that as crossing the line.

I realize photos are going to be ripped off. That's why I downsize my original to a smaller resolution and select a medium to low JPEG conversion. That not only makes them smaller in kilobytes so they load faster for your convenience in a message but also makes them non-commercially viable. The downside is my photos on my computer look a lot better than what gets posted. The upside is I can always prove I own the photo with the RAW format high resolution that is only in my possession.

We just found out in this thread that ETR did rip off wanderingjew's 2008 top 10 and posted them on the ETR blog site. He/she did acknowledge they were wanderingjew's photos but they were ripped off Roadfood.com without acknowledgment. In my online experience, I consider that wanderingjew owns the copyright of the photos and his commentary but Roadfood.com owns the body of the content of the whole thread and topic that wanderingjew voluntarily contributed to. However you look at it, it was ripped off unless wanderingjew volunteered them to the ETR blog as well. If not, to me, that is a total breach of etiquette and cast suspicion on all of ETR's uploads here.

Re:Across the Nation (Best of List) - Eating The Road (mar52)

Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:20:08 GMT

Think of it as a book in the library.
You can't copy it and offer it as your own.

On Ebay people post pictures of things that they are going to sell. If someone else uses the same picture they can get kicked off of Ebay because it's stealing something that doesn't belong to you.

Same thing here.

As for what Tony posted. In the beginning I found ETR's posts interesting. Then I realized they were only posting a picture here and forcing me to go to their board.

Then I quit looking and became irritated every time I saw something Googled every time they figured we didn't know something. As if we couldn't do the very same thing.