FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (MilwFoodlovers)

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:18:55 GMT

November has an "r" in it and is a good month to enjoy oysters. The proposed rule (since rescinded) was eating them out of season unless treating them; sort of like drinking pastuerized milk versus raw milk.

i9

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (NC Cheesehead)

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:06:24 GMT

Not trying to drag up another argument here but I just spent the last 4 days between Charleston SC and Savannah GA. I enjoyed 8 dozen oysters at various places and every single place said they were from Apalachicola Florida on the gulf coast due to their quality and size. Every place I asked about said they have had NO issues whatsoever.

This is a FUN place to go.

www.thecrabshack.com

I chose a bucket and shucked them on my own. I started up a conversation with a guy at a table who was doing the same as me but he was shucking them at three times the speed. He was so good and fast that he was actually shucking them and eating them right off the knife! The waitress mentioned to us that they were sourced at Apalachicola Bay. He was a big older salty looking fellow and I ended up buying him a beer after I ate my own. We got into a conversation and the bottom line is that they need to be eaten fresh right from the water. How did he know this? He fished for them up until about 10 years ago. He said he never had any issues. I am still walking after my 8 dozen quest. Two dozen in Charleston, three dozen in Savannah, and three dozen at the the crab shack. All claimed to be from Apalachicola FL.

Go oysters go!!!

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CCinNJ)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:19:22 GMT

The FDA is the Food & Drug Administration. Years ago there were not as many tight regulations and classifications of potentially hazardous foods. They view hazards as far as potential to cause grave illness with consideration to the amount of prescriptions people take these days. Years ago people were not considered as fragile (before anything happened) by the FDA. Today they are very very cautious about the potential rather than simply in response to issues.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (tommyeats)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:06:43 GMT

i have no idea what any of that means.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CCinNJ)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:58:07 GMT

The safety meaures regarding tainted food are a little different vs. the warning labels tax proposals and bans on unnhealty but not fatal in moderation over time issues.

I believe it has much to do with the new wonder drugs out there. There are new risks groups of people. Some drugs work to treat an ailment but also seriously compromise your immune system . You can be a healthy person overall who takes a monthly shot for arthritis...and you are now in a risk group.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:51:48 GMT

PopsDogHouse

It would be nice to have measures taken when reasonable and appropriate. But where does it stop? Consumption of sugar can lead to Type 2 Diabetes. Diabetes is the 7th leading cause of death in the U.S. Should we ban Coconut Cream Pie? Then we'll just go after all sugar. Pretty soon, big brother is telling you what you can and can't eat. That's unacceptable to most reasonable, thinking people.

That's right. The trick is in finding where to draw the line. It's tricky, because you not only have to consider the risk, you also have to consider what you'd give up to eliminate the risk, and also how much the public knows about the potential risk.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CCinNJ)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:38:35 GMT

There is certainly a CYA system for small restaurants to have in place. It does not include running to Sams or BJs or the Supermarket to shop for perishibles. You lose the chain of command and open a can of worms that way. Don't ever do that and you avoid the questions of how were these perishibles transported...in your trunk? How long? Why? Are you crazy? Nice cooler...see you in court. Tell it to the judge.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (PopsDogHouse)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:30:01 GMT

Bruce Bilmes and Sue Boyle

But who wants to wait until your neighbors start dropping dead as the clue that maybe you shouldn't be eating in a particular restaurant? Many of us would like some measures taken that kicks in before that happens.

It would be nice to have measures taken when reasonable and appropriate. But where does it stop? Consumption of sugar can lead to Type 2 Diabetes. Diabetes is the 7th leading cause of death in the U.S. Should we ban Coconut Cream Pie? Then we'll just go after all sugar. Pretty soon, big brother is telling you what you can and can't eat. That's unacceptable to most reasonable, thinking people.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:27:34 GMT

So true. But the modern food distribution system works to disguise the source of the problem. That NYT story from a few weeks ago, about ground beef, made that too clear. Companies selling cheap beef to other companies do so under the condition that the purchaser agrees not to test the safety of the beef they buy.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CCinNJ)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:17:31 GMT

Jack in the Box disregarded the safe-cooking standards about cooking to a 155 degree temperature...which would have killed the e.coli. When a restaurant does not follow the law and violates health codes which result in illness or death...they are liable.

In cases of mass epidemic a class-action suit is usually formed and they tend to trace and focus on the original source after an investigation...not the retailers of the tainted product when it was through no fault of their own. If not every small store that sold tainted dog food and peanut butter (before a recall) would be out of business.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:13:22 GMT

But who wants to wait until your neighbors start dropping dead as the clue that maybe you shouldn't be eating in a particular restaurant? Many of us would like some measures taken that kicks in before that happens.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (PopsDogHouse)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:10:57 GMT

Yes, the restaurant serving bad oysters will certainly have liability. They will more than likely be punished by the judicial system. The free market also has a very harsh way of telling you that you screwed up, even if the problem was beyond your reasonable control. If people become ill or die due to bad food served at your restaurant, chances are good that your doors will close.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (mayor al)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:57:33 GMT

Mil Food LVR- Isn't that how the law works now? The Jack in the Box disaster from some years back comes to mind??? The details are foggy to me as to how that was finally settled...Was JIB the final 'guilty party or was it the meat supplier????

In the Oyster case, I am sure the restaurant/ final seller would be partially accountable, but how about the others in the food supply chain? Where does accountablity start, and how far does each level go??

This is a very complex issue, But somehow the consumer does need some 'insurance' that the final product is safe.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:56:06 GMT

Which they would be anyway, right? I mean, the way the laws are right now, if someone eats a bad oyster at a restaurant and she dies, the restaurant is liable, isn't it? And still 15 people a year die. So you have to choose your level of death.

If an additive was available to restaurants that made food taste unbelievably delicious, but half the people who ate it died, I think most people would be in favor of banning it. If something killed one person every century, I think practically nobody would ban it.

So everyone agrees that some things should be outlawed in food and we should assume the risk for other things. The people who want this law enacted feel the benefits of those 15 lives a year outweigh the costs to oyster eaters and producers. I think it goes overboard but I can see how some people might not agree with that.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (MilwFoodlovers)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:25:22 GMT

Perhaps the solution should be that the restaurant agrees to be held responsible if they serve a tainted product?

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:07:40 GMT

The subject of the proposed regulations on the sale of raw oysters is a good one. I happen to think these new regulations are a lousy idea.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CajunKing)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:55:02 GMT

Wow......

Ever regret posting a simple comment???

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (PopsDogHouse)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:08:44 GMT

Thank you Al. Your comments are very much appreciated.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (mayor al)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:04:26 GMT

Pops, Just in case you aren't aware. The rest of the moderators appreciate your efforts with this forum. We make no claim at having the knowledge of the business, so dealing with the law in relation to the food service industry would be an exercise in futility.
Your 'steering' the discussions has been a good addition to the overall operation of the forums.

We have faced some of the personality issues you are confronting now. Perhaps Management will intervene this time to resolve some of problems they seem to have within the administration.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CCinNJ)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:10:34 GMT

Sometimes people who don't smoke and eat oysters feel like cigarettes should be outlawed or cost $1000 a pack but leave the oysters alone. Go get those little girls that smoke. Uh oh.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (PopsDogHouse)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:08:02 GMT

Bruce Bilmes and Sue Boyle

PopsDogHouse

You don't present an opposing point of view Bruce. You don't have anything of value to contribute here. You just come over and cry foul. This isn't the Miscellaneous forum, and you don't see political discussion here just for the sake of political discussion. I delete that crap. But, you do see dialogue from time to time about government regulation and its impact on the food industry. If good, relevant discussion is censored here, people will leave for a more open venue. I am not referring to those who want to discuss politics. I'm referring to those who want to discuss business. And I can promise you that government involvement in business is a big issue for anyone in business. And everyone here is not of the same opinion. However, because most of these folks are entrepreneurs, you will find that many, not all, would probably hold to the belief system of a rugged individualist.

I'm sorry that you find me and/or the forum to be a disgrace. Does this mean you'll go away now?

You can rationalize it all you want but it doesn't change the fact that this board is a part of Roadfood. We have rules here. You think you can make your own rules.

I live in a black, white, and gray world. I spend alot of time in the gray because I find more creativity, and many more interesting people there. Anymore problems Bruce, please send them via PM. Our discussion is over.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (PopsDogHouse)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:04:27 GMT

CCinNJ

Who approves the well? I am sure there are people somewhere screaming "leave my well alone...my Grandpa and his Grandpa..."

I can't speak for all areas, only mine. If you are going to use a well as your water source in a food service establishment, it has to be tested and approved by the Dept. of Environmental Services. The government tests my well water. I take it to them once a year. I have no problem with that. Now, let them try to come put a meter on it so that they can tax me on my water usage, and that will be a different story.

I think most people who eat oysters know the risks and choose to eat them anyway. It's just like people who smoke, drink, skydive, fly, bungee jump etc......

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CCinNJ)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:38:00 GMT

Who approves the well? I am sure there are people somewhere screaming "leave my well alone...my Grandpa and his Grandpa..."

Medical advancement means less people may die...but more people get really sick (and it does not take much). If this was myself or one of my children on dialysis three times a week for life...and I assume nobody would say oh well such is life at that point.

Going against that old adage means people feel "safe" to eat the oysters during the warmer months....but I bet there are also those who break those rules constantly...intentionally or not. Then it is like the Girl Scouts selling hot dogs in front of Walmart or a vendor with a crockpot when you are following the rules. Go get those little girls...and these little girls and these little girls!!! At some point the focus on little girl chasing prompts a response that effects those that do follow the rules to the letter. But the oyster is already out of the shell because people feel safe to eat oysters in June! Then the other loud voices screaming where was the govt. when they hear the latest news story about an outbreak of illness from this or that. Then back to the voices screaming how people qualify straight for Medicare when they go on dialysis no matter what...and that treatment costs thousands of dollars in taxpayer money a week per patient...for life.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:37:54 GMT

PopsDogHouse

You don't present an opposing point of view Bruce. You don't have anything of value to contribute here. You just come over and cry foul. This isn't the Miscellaneous forum, and you don't see political discussion here just for the sake of political discussion. I delete that crap. But, you do see dialogue from time to time about government regulation and its impact on the food industry. If good, relevant discussion is censored here, people will leave for a more open venue. I am not referring to those who want to discuss politics. I'm referring to those who want to discuss business. And I can promise you that government involvement in business is a big issue for anyone in business. And everyone here is not of the same opinion. However, because most of these folks are entrepreneurs, you will find that many, not all, would probably hold to the belief system of a rugged individualist.

I'm sorry that you find me and/or the forum to be a disgrace. Does this mean you'll go away now?

You can rationalize it all you want but it doesn't change the fact that this board is a part of Roadfood. We have rules here. You think you can make your own rules.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (PopsDogHouse)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:18:13 GMT

CC-If the restaurant in the article was using a private, unapproved well that was tainted, they should be the focus.

And concerning the advances in technology not being enough, maybe they aren't. Personally, I can't make that leap. I don't believe that 15 deaths annually that occur in an "at risk" population indicates a systemic problem with technology. While I certainly don't want to see anyone lose their life, especially from food, there are tens of thousands of deaths attributed to foodborne illness and disease. The government can double or triple their payroll, and we'll have another problem. They can't protect us from everything.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (CCinNJ)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 08:12:14 GMT

Ok so there cannot be cherrypicking when it comes to these matters. The system had flaws...like all systems. With no system the focus will be square on the source of any tainted products served....and without a system there is no going to the root...it will go to the restaurants serving the tainted food. No investigaton of the peanut factory slaughterhouse etc. Now you are named in countless lawsuits as the defendant. You got it from this source that source handled it properly and there are issues without any way of you knowing.

This is what happens when a restaurant is the focus...

http://www.nrn.com/breakingNews.aspx?menu_id=1368&id=373782

Here is a portion of the article...

"Until the 1960s, raw oysters were rarely eaten in the summertime. (The old adage was never eat oysters in the months without an R in them.) But changes in harvest patterns and advances in refrigeration and post-harvest treatment have made the industry a year-round business. About three-fifths of the Gulf's oysters are harvested during the warm months."

Maybe the advances are just not enough and this is the outcome of turning the industry into a year-round business. Something it was not for generations before the 60s.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (PopsDogHouse)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:52:28 GMT

Bruce Bilmes and Sue Boyle

PopsDogHouse
it usually doesn't get out of control until you show up.

That's because only one side is presented until I show up! Sure, everything seems hunky-dory when everyone piles on with the same opinions. You only seem to have a problem when someone presents an opposing view.

Why is it that we have set up rules for the good of this website, but you seem to think that you, and only you, can choose to ignore those rules on "your" forum? It's a disgrace.

You don't present an opposing point of view Bruce. You don't have anything of value to contribute here. You just come over and cry foul. This isn't the Miscellaneous forum, and you don't see political discussion here just for the sake of political discussion. I delete that crap. But, you do see dialogue from time to time about government regulation and its impact on the food industry. If good, relevant discussion is censored here, people will leave for a more open venue. I am not referring to those who want to discuss politics. I'm referring to those who want to discuss business. And I can promise you that government involvement in business is a big issue for anyone in business. And everyone here is not of the same opinion. However, because most of these folks are entrepreneurs, you will find that many, not all, would probably hold to the belief system of a rugged individualist.

I'm sorry that you find me and/or the forum to be a disgrace. Does this mean you'll go away now?

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Foodbme)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:20:25 GMT

Bruce Bilmes and Sue Boyle

PopsDogHouse
it usually doesn't get out of control until you show up.

That's because only one side is presented until I show up! Sure, everything seems hunky-dory when everyone piles on with the same opinions. You only seem to have a problem when someone presents an opposing view.

Why is it that we have set up rules for the good of this website, but you seem to think that you, and only you, can choose to ignore those rules on "your" forum? It's a disgrace.

Bruce & Sue,

You don't seem to get it. Many THINKING Americans are outraged at the level of Government control of their lives and rthe Waste of their money
. They're outraged at the COST of government control and it's related exenses! They're outraged with the fact that they can't control the expansion of and the COST of Government Control.

In this case, If the FDA creates a " Dept of Oyster Safety" and creates 20 new jobs with an Average salary of $50,000.00, That's $1,000,000.00 Annually--Add 30% for benefits, that's $30,000.00. Then we need to equip their offices with Desks, Chairs, other Amenities like a Lunch Room, Computers, Phones, Copy Machines, Etc. Admin Staff and their benefits,--------------Pretty soon we're talking serious money!!! Maybe $10,000,000.00 ANNUALLY!!!!!!
Now you can argue that spending $10 MILLON DOLLARS/ PER YEAR + ( Because once a piece of the Bureauracy is put in place, it NEVER, EVER goes away!) is worth saving a couple lives a year.

I SUBMIT-- that $10 Million could be better spent on other projects with a HIGHER RETURN VALUE like Cancer Research or other projects that affect more than 15 people a year!

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (mar52)

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:23:59 GMT

Bruce, that was crossing the line.

Re:FDA to ban sale of raw Gulf oysters (Dr of BBQ)

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:58:04 GMT

What is that supposed to mean? What are the parameters of a political discussion?

Is it just any time you cry foul ball? LMAO