About burgers

Re:About burgers (CCinNJ)

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:08:49 GMT

konnie

AZdog

Dr of BBQ

AZ
First "Is there a safe way to pre-cook them to a certain point, and then refrigerate them?"

That is a big no no with hamburgers. You can do a couple of things and all this has been posted here before if you do a search.

Move them after cooking to a cool side of the grill and then back to the hot side just before you serve them or use an au jus of your choice in a pan and put them in that on a cooler corner of the grill until serving.

But hamburger cooked half way and thrown into a fridge is not a good idea.

Do a burger search here you'l find a ton of post.

Jack

Figured about the 1/2 cook - but wasn't sure about it.

I did a search on burgers, and holding (mostly older posts - with a lot of hypotheticals in there) so I am looking for more recent and "real world" experience on how to hold some burgers.

Any advice on tried-and-true au jus?

We sell Hamburgers, Cheeseburgers, Buffalo Burgers and Buffalo Cheese from a trailer at local events and have solved our holding problem. We use a large outside commercial gas grill.

We sell about 200 to 250 burgers on a day and here is how we do it. It takes about 7 to 8 minutes to cook a burger (4 to 5 minutes on one side sprinkle with garlic pepper and flip for 2 or 3 minutess, sprinkle again and they will be done).

I then move them to a holding pan kept at 150 to 160* with a special mix in it. The mix we use is grilled onions and chicken broth (not beef broth). After they order I always serve out of the holding pan and replace with burgers off the grill. If they want cheese on it, I put it back on the grill just long enough for the slice of cheese to melt into the burger. The Buffalo does not hold as well as the hamburger but the hamburger will easily hold for an hour or 2 if needed.

Before I open up I grill a lot of onions. Enough that my warmer is about 1/2 full. I then put 4 chicken bullion cubes to a cup of water and boil up enough mix to just barely cover the onions. I use chicken instead of beef because the burgers don't pick up any taste from chicken like they would with beef. They stay very juicy and the onion taste works it way through the meat. I have had countless people tell me it is the best burger they have ever eaten. At the end of the day I might have 3 or 4 burgers left but with pratice I have learned how long before I shut down to stop grilling.

You wanted "real world" so that is how I do them and I cooked over 8,000 burgers during our last season (May thru October). If you have more questions, PM me. Good luck.

Mike S.

The frozen part is not the issue. The premade generic from big box frozen part.

An 85/15 premade frozen hamburger 7-8 minutes on a grill...up to 1 - 2 hours in a pan with chicken broth & onions (maybe back on the grill with cheese) still has a trace of fat and taste of beef left?

Re:About burgers (CCinNJ)

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:03:10 GMT

waydeg

CCinNJ

If you want a steaming (and better holding) method....

The Burg'r Tend'r

http://steamcheeseburgerchest.com/index.html

It works on a range is not expensive.

It would free the grill up for items that are quicker or hold better on a grill than burgers.

This is awesome... saw the steamed burger on "Hamburger Paradise" I think.

Yes...World Famous Ted's Restaurant Meriden CT.

http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=112

Re:About burgers (waydeg)

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:19:16 GMT

CCinNJ

If you want a steaming (and better holding) method....

The Burg'r Tend'r

http://steamcheeseburgerchest.com/index.html

It works on a range is not expensive.

It would free the grill up for items that are quicker or hold better on a grill than burgers.

This is awesome... saw the steamed burger on "Hamburger Paradise" I think.

Re:About burgers (konnie)

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:30:45 GMT

AZdog

Good information there Mike. I will be sure to try your method - thanks for the precise ingredients rather than just generalities.

I won't have the outside grill, and it sounds like you may be charbroiling them? I will be working with a flat griddle, but I believe I can make it work.

You explained the principle behind using the chicken broth, but are you using the onions for a specific reason too or is it just for flavor?

Mostly just for the flavor. However, the onions will soak up the water and make kind of an onion mush so the burgers stay juicy but not water soaked inside. At one show I got ready to open and had forgotten the bag of onions so I used just the broth. It worked but I thought the burgers seemed more water soaked instead of juicy so now I always make sure I have the onions with me. Get you a mandoline slicer. It's easier than chopping a bunch of onions and they grill better.

Mike S.

Re:About burgers (konnie)

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:51:07 GMT

buytheslice

I wasnt meaning to get a whole fresh vs frozen thing going. Just mentioning a method of cooking and holding a good quanity. Stay within 15 min at 140-150 degrees and they will be just like just came up. Any left over after that time gets ground up for chili.

Im not sure how it is where you are at but its pretty standard in this area that all burgers MUST be cooked well done.

Also, not all fast food burgers are like mcdonalds. They frozen ones I used to make were 100% U.S. beef. no fillers, no crap.

Do keep in mind this is a BUSINESS you are venturing into, and in the environment youre describing it is gonna be tough to get your niche.

IMO After you run a trailer for a while you will be selling frozen burgers. We sell an individually frozen 85/15 ALL NATURAL angus burger that will compete with any fresh burger you can buy at half the cost. What will you do with the fresh burgers you don't sell everyday, throw the meat out? No you will take them home and freeze them or you will go broke. Our burgers go directly from the freezer to the grill and when the day is over, the burgers I didn't sell are still in the freezer, ready for tomorrow. Buy a quality 85/15 and you won't have any problems. Try to use 75/25 or 70/30 like MickyD's does and you're right, the word will get out and then you're 'dead meat'. Quality is far more important than fresh or frozen. Just my opinion.

Mike S.

Re:About burgers (AZdog)

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:46:17 GMT

Good information there Mike. I will be sure to try your method - thanks for the precise ingredients rather than just generalities.

I won't have the outside grill, and it sounds like you may be charbroiling them? I will be working with a flat griddle, but I believe I can make it work.

You explained the principle behind using the chicken broth, but are you using the onions for a specific reason too or is it just for flavor?

Re:About burgers (konnie)

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:21:56 GMT

AZdog

Dr of BBQ

AZ
First "Is there a safe way to pre-cook them to a certain point, and then refrigerate them?"

That is a big no no with hamburgers. You can do a couple of things and all this has been posted here before if you do a search.

Move them after cooking to a cool side of the grill and then back to the hot side just before you serve them or use an au jus of your choice in a pan and put them in that on a cooler corner of the grill until serving.

But hamburger cooked half way and thrown into a fridge is not a good idea.

Do a burger search here you'l find a ton of post.

Jack

Figured about the 1/2 cook - but wasn't sure about it.

I did a search on burgers, and holding (mostly older posts - with a lot of hypotheticals in there) so I am looking for more recent and "real world" experience on how to hold some burgers.

Any advice on tried-and-true au jus?

We sell Hamburgers, Cheeseburgers, Buffalo Burgers and Buffalo Cheese from a trailer at local events and have solved our holding problem. We use a large outside commercial gas grill.

We sell about 200 to 250 burgers on a day and here is how we do it. It takes about 7 to 8 minutes to cook a burger (4 to 5 minutes on one side sprinkle with garlic pepper and flip for 2 or 3 minutess, sprinkle again and they will be done).

I then move them to a holding pan kept at 150 to 160* with a special mix in it. The mix we use is grilled onions and chicken broth (not beef broth). After they order I always serve out of the holding pan and replace with burgers off the grill. If they want cheese on it, I put it back on the grill just long enough for the slice of cheese to melt into the burger. The Buffalo does not hold as well as the hamburger but the hamburger will easily hold for an hour or 2 if needed.

Before I open up I grill a lot of onions. Enough that my warmer is about 1/2 full. I then put 4 chicken bullion cubes to a cup of water and boil up enough mix to just barely cover the onions. I use chicken instead of beef because the burgers don't pick up any taste from chicken like they would with beef. They stay very juicy and the onion taste works it way through the meat. I have had countless people tell me it is the best burger they have ever eaten. At the end of the day I might have 3 or 4 burgers left but with pratice I have learned how long before I shut down to stop grilling.

You wanted "real world" so that is how I do them and I cooked over 8,000 burgers during our last season (May thru October). If you have more questions, PM me. Good luck.

Mike S.

Re:About burgers (buytheslice)

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:02:44 GMT

I wasnt meaning to get a whole fresh vs frozen thing going. Just mentioning a method of cooking and holding a good quanity. Stay within 15 min at 140-150 degrees and they will be just like just came up. Any left over after that time gets ground up for chili.

Im not sure how it is where you are at but its pretty standard in this area that all burgers MUST be cooked well done.

Also, not all fast food burgers are like mcdonalds. They frozen ones I used to make were 100% U.S. beef. no fillers, no crap.

Do keep in mind this is a BUSINESS you are venturing into, and in the environment youre describing it is gonna be tough to get your niche.

Re:About burgers (CCinNJ)

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:41:33 GMT

Brisket burgers!

Re:About burgers (AZdog)

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:34:03 GMT

chefbuba

AZ..Are burgers all that you are going to be selling?? I would hope that you are selling other items too.. your sales would only be around $100.... less expenses...cost of foods, propane, power, septic, insurance, permits, licenses, paper goods, ice, gasoline, rents,etc... I operate out of a 20' trailer..in a small town... with no buldings over 3 stories..it is set up to do anything that I want...so don't let the "trailer" thing slow you down..if it's set up and equipped properly, you can do anything... My break eaven on all these fixed costs is about $75 a day, plus the cost of goods...then I have to pay myself... some days I work for free! So if your projected sales are not more than these #'s ... good luck!

I will be selling hand cut fries, 2 variations of chocolate chop cookies, as well as 12oz sodas, wrapping them up in various types of combos (ie double bacon cheeseburger, fries, soda, and a handmade cookie for $XYZ)

The city restricts similar products being sold within close proximity (non-competitive clause) - so you won't find a hot dog cart sitting next to a trailer selling hot dogs. Where I will be set-up will have a Mexican food trailer, a kettle corn vendor, a hot dog cart, in the summer there's a shaved ice trailer, and sometimes a coffee and donuts type of trailer there, all within 15 feet of each other. This stipulation pretty much pigeon-holes me into 1 type of food.

That being said, once established I could look at a breakfast menu consisting of eggs, some hashbrowns, bacon, English muffins etc.. but that would be down the road after feedback and viability has been considered.

I know there are options like fried chicken, sliders, nuggets - or fried whatever. My main two pieces of equipment is 24" griddle and a 40lbs deep fryer. But this is my first go-around in this type of business (food) so I want to make sure that I am solid operationally before I begin to expand my menu. Heck, I'm still working on renovating the trailer I bought.

I believe there is one independent neighborhood (Kosher) butcher outside of the supermarkets. I will have to drop buy and find out more.

Thanks again for the WoW (words of wisdom). I'm soaking it all in.

Re:About burgers (CCinNJ)

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:34:46 GMT

Most people are married to pre-ground hamburger meat and patties. Even those who butcher large cuts on their own. If you look at the labels on pre-made burgers you quickly realize that there are plenty of fillers and fats that are scrap. There are good leftovers and not so good leftovers. Being in the business of burgers at least warrants a visit to the local butchers to see what they have to offer in terms of bulk partial cuts they will not otherwise be selling as steak. They will almost always be worlds away in taste quality freshness and many times will match or come close to a price on ground burger meat found on major retail level. It works on the butcher end because this is their leftovers they want to move. Catch them before they grind their own burgers and see if there are deals to strike. They are most willing to strike deals for customers buying large quantities on a very frequent basis. Always investigate closest to the original form in the best quality source.

Re:About burgers (Dr of BBQ)

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:51:32 GMT

I mostly agree with both of the above post and especially with ChefBuba but "There has to be a product differentiation." everyone has to remember most fast food places are selling filler mixed into their burgers (about 40%) not all ground beef at what ever level.

So hand made OR frozen (of equal quality) and they are out there, are still much better than the filler laden burgers you get at any fast food joint.

Just my thoughts
Jack

Re:About burgers (CCinNJ)

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:29:41 GMT

I think you are spot on about avoiding frozen burgers. Yes fast food does it this way but they all carry Double Cheeseburgers on the dollar menu. If you do not rise above the level of quaity you are going to have to meet them in the price range...or lose.

But you made an investment in a venue to have the ability to sell over and above a cart. If you get too conservative in expectation or limited as far as menu items you do not generate enough sales to make that investment worth it.

Re:About burgers (chefbuba)

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:42:57 GMT

AZdog

buytheslice

In my evil days of fast food, we would use frozen patties (dont know what all the stigma is) and cook up 30 at a time just before our lunch rush. 2.5 min each side, seasoned after the turn.

They would be placed in 1/3 pan in steam table and held for up to 15 minutes. Still plenty juicy and tasty. when about half gone, would cook up more and repeat process as needed. Had many many repeat customers every day that loved them.

We would do at least 200 on slow lunch.

If you cant move at least 30 burgers at lunch rush, you shouldnt be bothering with them anyways.

At a fast food joint, I wouldn't have a problem serving frozen burgers - and it's about 50% expected that what you're eating was frozen at some juncture. However, my demographic would be a 1 shot if they saw me throwing down a frozen patty (my trailer has large windows where they can see the show). Sure, I would get their dollar now, but believe me they wouldn't return. That's the mentality behind fast food - they're not necessarily concerned with consumer loyalty or repeat customers. It's all about today, get them in and out and get their money.

I live in a small town where word travels fast and referrals are golden. Within a month I would be out of business should I decide to serve frozen burgers straight from the freezer. The stigma behind frozen burgers is 1) quality 2)taste 3)freshness. It would definetly simplify things, but I just don't think it would fly. For some reason, I don't think that I could justify and get away with charging $3 for a frozen burger when the fast food chains are slinging them for $1. There has to be a product differentiation.

Please be reminded that this is a concession trailer, set up in a city with maybe 3 building taller than 15 stories. It's not a McDee's.
25 to 30 burgers for the day would be fine.

AZ..Are burgers all that you are going to be selling?? I would hope that you are selling other items too.. your sales would only be around $100.... less expenses...cost of foods, propane, power, septic, insurance, permits, licenses, paper goods, ice, gasoline, rents,etc...

I operate out of a 20' trailer..in a small town... with no buldings over 3 stories..it is set up to do anything that I want...so don't let the "trailer" thing slow you down..if it's set up and equipped properly, you can do anything... My break eaven on all these fixed costs is about $75 a day, plus the cost of goods...then I have to pay myself... some days I work for free!

So if your projected sales are not more than these #'s ... good luck!

Re:About burgers (AZdog)

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:16:27 GMT

buytheslice

In my evil days of fast food, we would use frozen patties (dont know what all the stigma is) and cook up 30 at a time just before our lunch rush. 2.5 min each side, seasoned after the turn.

They would be placed in 1/3 pan in steam table and held for up to 15 minutes. Still plenty juicy and tasty. when about half gone, would cook up more and repeat process as needed. Had many many repeat customers every day that loved them.

We would do at least 200 on slow lunch.

If you cant move at least 30 burgers at lunch rush, you shouldnt be bothering with them anyways.

At a fast food joint, I wouldn't have a problem serving frozen burgers - and it's about 50% expected that what you're eating was frozen at some juncture. However, my demographic would be a 1 shot if they saw me throwing down a frozen patty (my trailer has large windows where they can see the show). Sure, I would get their dollar now, but believe me they wouldn't return. That's the mentality behind fast food - they're not necessarily concerned with consumer loyalty or repeat customers. It's all about today, get them in and out and get their money.

I live in a small town where word travels fast and referrals are golden. Within a month I would be out of business should I decide to serve frozen burgers straight from the freezer. The stigma behind frozen burgers is 1) quality 2)taste 3)freshness. It would definetly simplify things, but I just don't think it would fly. For some reason, I don't think that I could justify and get away with charging $3 for a frozen burger when the fast food chains are slinging them for $1. There has to be a product differentiation.

Please be reminded that this is a concession trailer, set up in a city with maybe 3 building taller than 15 stories. It's not a McDee's.
25 to 30 burgers for the day would be fine.

Re:About burgers (PopsDogHouse)

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:05:50 GMT

BillyB

I have to get a burger out in less than a minute so I have no choice. I take a burger out of the refer and steam them under a cover on the grill. When it's hot I steam again with a slice of cheese.

You do this in under a minute??

Re:About burgers (buytheslice)

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:26:21 GMT

In my evil days of fast food, we would use frozen patties (dont know what all the stigma is) and cook up 30 at a time just before our lunch rush. 2.5 min each side, seasoned after the turn.

They would be placed in 1/3 pan in steam table and held for up to 15 minutes. Still plenty juicy and tasty. when about half gone, would cook up more and repeat process as needed. Had many many repeat customers every day that loved them.

We would do at least 200 on slow lunch.

If you cant move at least 30 burgers at lunch rush, you shouldnt be bothering with them anyways.

Re:About burgers (CCinNJ)

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:40:16 GMT

If you want a steaming (and better holding) method....

The Burg'r Tend'r

http://steamcheeseburgerchest.com/index.html

It works on a range is not expensive.

It would free the grill up for items that are quicker or hold better on a grill than burgers.

Re:About burgers (AZdog)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:20:56 GMT

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks for the suggestions/advice.

I think that I will make them 1/4 and size them with a bit larger circumference so they are just outside the bun which should trim some time off of the cooking. I will try the steaming method first and see how that works for me when I get this thing up and going.

Re:About burgers (chewingthefat)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:34:56 GMT

instead of a 1/4lb burger do2-2oz., fresh burgers, call it a double or double cheese burger, will take about 3 minutes to cook on a good grill.

Re:About burgers (CCinNJ)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:38:23 GMT

You will have to make them as thin as possible. If you do not do burgers fresh to order the notion of building a new business around burgers does not work. Especially in the same location where customers might not become regulars without any motivation past hungry and need it that quick. That only works when the price is right (for them) and you kill your ability to price for profit unless you kill yourself turning out dollar burgers.

Re:About burgers (Russ Jackson)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:05:50 GMT

Thin fresh ground burgers cook pretty quickly. You can buy a hamburger press and make them ahead. When it is busy you can serve burgers held in a simmer and for the customers who want fresh they will wait. You could easily stack four or five burgers under a dome on the warm side of the gril. Flea markets and street fairs hold them in a simmer. If you have too many people waiting that is a good thing...Russ

Half cooked burgers do not work. By the time you reheated them to the point the middle was cooked the outside would be like a hockey puck. There is a place in miamisburg ohio it is a hamburger cart. The burgers are actually fried in a wok half filled with peanut oil. There is always a line rain. snow or shine.

Re:About burgers (BillyB)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:39:49 GMT

Hey AZ, I do precooked burgers everyday.Most in here will not agree, and if I had my choice I would cook fresh. I have to get a burger out in less than a minute so I have no choice. I take a burger out of the refer and steam them under a cover on the grill. When it's hot I steam again with a slice of cheese. I'm not saying I would do it this way if my business was a burger Restaurant and I had more time to cook to order. In your case precook and hold for a short time on a wire rack in a 3rd pan with some water on the bottom and covered and hold on the side of the grill. this will steam and hold only for a short period of time.Put the burger on the grill steam it under the lid cover, top with cheese and steam again............................Bill

Re:About burgers (AZdog)

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:56:55 GMT

Dr of BBQ

AZ
First "Is there a safe way to pre-cook them to a certain point, and then refrigerate them?"

That is a big no no with hamburgers. You can do a couple of things and all this has been posted here before if you do a search.

Move them after cooking to a cool side of the grill and then back to the hot side just before you serve them or use an au jus of your choice in a pan and put them in that on a cooler corner of the grill until serving.

But hamburger cooked half way and thrown into a fridge is not a good idea.

Do a burger search here you'l find a ton of post.

Jack

Figured about the 1/2 cook - but wasn't sure about it.

I did a search on burgers, and holding (mostly older posts - with a lot of hypotheticals in there) so I am looking for more recent and "real world" experience on how to hold some burgers.

Any advice on tried-and-true au jus?

Re:About burgers (Dr of BBQ)

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:40:54 GMT

AZ
First "Is there a safe way to pre-cook them to a certain point, and then refrigerate them?"

That is a big no no with hamburgers. You can do a couple of things and all this has been posted here before if you do a search.

Move them after cooking to a cool side of the grill and then back to the hot side just before you serve them or use an au jus of your choice in a pan and put them in that on a cooler corner of the grill until serving.

But hamburger cooked half way and thrown into a fridge is not a good idea.

Do a burger search here you'l find a ton of post.

Jack

Re:About burgers (AZdog)

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:25:26 GMT

Russ Jackson

http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_102200

This will cut down your cooking time. Cut down splatter. And there is no better way to melt cheese....Russ

OK - I just bought 2 of them - especially since they were on sale. Any suggestions about how to use them. I can see them being used to quickly do some cheese on a burger - but are they good for holding as well? I have a 24" griddle, and I would put a couple of them under that with some water on a low setting and just hold them on the griddle?

@chefbuba

I plan to be selling downtown near government buildings and a superior court and county court. I would like to sell at least 25 burgers from 10am to 4pm. Comes to about 4 an hour. There are not many burger joints in the area, and the places that do sell them are about $6 at a sit down place. The crowd are lawyers, city workers, government employees and probably anticipate getting their food quickly - between deliberations etc.

That's why I need to be able to hold the burgers and get them out quickly when a customer arrives. I would say 2minutes tops is what I'm looking for.

There will be a Mexican food trailer (burritos, tacos etc) and a hot dog cart within 25 feet of where I will be. So, I fear if they wait too long, they will visit the other places where they are almost instantly served.

Re:About burgers (chefbuba)

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:09:17 GMT

How many burgers are you going to be selling....and where??.... If you are not "slopping the hogs" at a fair or something... People will wait for quality!... All my sands are on a toasted roll... Takes a few minutes in the oven for that... Then to assemble the sand.. People don't mind waiting for quality... And it shows.. because they come back for more.

I also do burgers.... No frozen beef... Fresh, and I try to get the stuff that has been ground in the store.. called market trim... Much better flavor. 1/4lb hand formed patties... Then char broil them...

I origianally opened and was selling Nathans 4:1 because there are 3 burger joints with in a half mile.... ... they did not sell.. Guess what.. the burgers do.. I only sell about 30-40 week...but that's a good start.. I am getting repeats just for burgers...

Re:About burgers (Russ Jackson)

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:00:32 GMT

http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_102200

This will cut down your cooking time. Cut down splatter. And there is no better way to melt cheese....Russ

About burgers (AZdog)

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:32:22 GMT

I am working on getting my concession trailer together, and I am thinking about using it to sell hamburgers.

I have checked out Costco's frozen hamburgers, and while they would be easy to serve-up, I think people would get turned-off once they see me slapping down a frozen patty.

I want to sell 1/4lbs burgers. My question is, how would you guys suggest me cooking the burgers up? It takes about 8-10 minutes to normally cook one and that's far too long for someone to wait outside the trailer.

Is there a safe way to pre-cook them to a certain point, and then refrigerate them? keep them warm? and then throw them back on the griddle when someone orders them? This is where I am at a loss. At point do you stop the cooking? How do you keep them from drying out or tasting like rubber?

Any help / suggestions would be appreciated.

I should add that I have never sold in the location that I will be set-up at, and that I have no way of predicting when a customer will come to anticipate a rush and act accordingly. It could be 1 person an hour for 3 hours and then 10 people and hour.. no way of knowing so at first I need to be able to hold some burgers for I would say at least an hour.