Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood?

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Nancypalooza)

Sat, 15 Jan 2011 10:20:05 GMT

This is the perennial 'what is art' conversation we have here sometimes--I do think it's a great topic, and it will never be done so long as there are more than one of us. :)

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (bucketsoflove)

Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:54:48 GMT

i love this thread and totally get your point and agree. and i haven't thought of the loveless in a long time so thanks!

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Michael Hoffman)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:26:11 GMT

For crying out loud, this thing is being beaten to death. The Sterns defined Roadfood. Seems to me that this is Roadfood by any definition other than the one that requires Roadfood to be cheap and served in a falling-down shack filled with rats and roaches. Leave it alone folks.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:14:20 GMT

Jay Mallory

I recall that one edition of the Roadfood book included New York's Four Seasons.

This is true - it was included in the 1997 edition of Eat Your Way Across the U.S.A. I think a reasonable case can be made in favor of the Four Seasons, but I think I also recall Michael Stern saying that the publisher of the Eat Your Way books kind of twisted their arms to include pricey restaurants in the cities, which they did against their better judgment. They may not have been happy about it, but I think they chose very wisely, including those places that were truly of the city in which they were located (the problem with so many great upscale restaurants, from a Roadfood perspective, is that they can be dropped anywhere on the planet without losing any of their appeal, and without changing an item on their menus).

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Jay Mallory)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:02:39 GMT

I recall that one edition of the Roadfood book included New York's Four Seasons. But if they make a case for an experience characteristic and unique to the area, fine. They should still wave a big red flag, more than just two or three $ signs like typical restaurant reviews.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (RockyF)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:12:50 GMT

I notice that when you search the restaurant reviews, you can search by restaurant type (there are over 60 types on the list at the moment), although I don't see in the reviews where the type(s) is/are displayed. Seems that types could include elements such as "splurge" or "corporate" to indicate to readers price level and/or the fact that this isn't a Mom & Pop place. I even believe that I remember that in some edition or other of one of the books, there was a category along the lines of "Splurge," but that could be my imagination.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Ralph Melton)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 14:42:44 GMT

When I'm trying to define Roadfood for people who don't know about it, I say "great food that's part of the local culture". I suspect that this definition can be improved, but this is at least concise and in the ballpark.

This definition of Roadfood says nothing directly about price, but it implies some strong things. It's pretty clear how a place like Galatoire's fits my definition, since Galatoire's has had years of reputation as one of New Orleans' great restaurants. But it nudges out many of the young expensive restaurants in Pittsburgh, because they attempt to provide pockets of a different culture and don't draw enough mainstream clientele to weave their culture into Pittsburgh's.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Tony Bad)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 13:42:29 GMT

This conversation made me think of Red's in Maine. Hard to find more of a roadfood/roadside shack kind of place anywhere yet a lobster roll and a drink will eat up all of a $20 bill. Not taking sides, just saying price alone can't be your yardstick.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:03:26 GMT

sky is right, trust Jane and Michael's judgment when it comes to Roadfood, because they seem to have perfect pitch about the subject. But don't be afraid to modify their approach to suit yourself. You want to drop cafeterias and burger joints from your own Roadfood concept, go right ahead. You think Roadfood should embrace that great Thai place in Dubuque and the little South Indian joint in Athens, GA? Nothing wrong with that. Just remember that other folks will have different ideas about Roadfood.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (sky)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:45:54 GMT

I think it's Justice Potter I'm paraphrasing--he couldn't define it, but he knew it when he saw it. Trust Jane and Michael to know what Roadfood is; that we're looking for wonderful food--especially regional food--at an everyday price. But once in awhile we all like to spurge; to try a place that really represents the best of a region and if we know that up going in....

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (jackr8)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:02:47 GMT

I agree with including restaurants that may carry a bigger price. Just identify it up front as a little more costly.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (schindlr)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 06:44:20 GMT

I agree with mhaugen and others. Ideally, a roadfood place should be cheap, but as was pointed out by buffetbuster and seafarer john, most of us are more interested in good food than low prices. I appreciate that information on both are available here. As a native New Orleanian, I wouldn't make a trip back to the Crescent City without dinner at Galatoire's, but I hit plenty of true roadfood establishments on those trips as well.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Curbside Grill)

Tue, 04 Jan 2011 00:08:27 GMT

Looking thru your Blog, do you need a place for next year? Third generation running it today. Hot Dog place since 1921

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (mhaugen)

Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:43:19 GMT

I'm inclined to say that "Roadfood" places should tend towards the more off the beaten path restaurants. One of my favorite all time places - found through Roadfood.com - is Henry's, in West Jefferson, Ohio. Part of the fun, in addition to the spectacular pie, was that my friends and I couldn't even find the place despite driving past it. While there are a *few* upper crust restaurants (Dooky Chase in New Orleans is an example) that could qualify as Roadfood places because they are very uniquely regional, for the most part I believe that they should be on the cheaper and more "rustic" (i.e. beat up) than most places. Dive bars and mom and pop joints are perfect examples.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (ann peeples)

Mon, 03 Jan 2011 06:40:03 GMT

Good point, my friend. I meant no offense to you and was only offering my opinion.I do, and will, continue to seek out what you and I consider real roadfood. I got what you were saying, after careful consideration, but just dont want to discount said places.Thats all. Happy New Year to you and yours!

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Heartbreaksoup)

Mon, 03 Jan 2011 06:32:30 GMT

I did want to stop back by and not appear like I vanished completely after lobbing an incendiary topic into discussion and running away, giggling. My family's had a fairly awful and distracting weekend, but I doubt I would have had much more to contribute to the discussion beyond stamping my foot, insisting that I'm right, and that if I judged this neat place I saw called Outback based on its website's description and menus, then I'd be sure to enjoy a traditional Australian dish called "shrimp on the barbie." With the greatest of respect to WJ and Michael, who've been here much longer than me and contributed much more than I have - I'm pretty sure I had not learned to stop eating at McDonald's in 2000 and 2001 when y'all joined - I really just can't agree with that, as surely Skippers *wants* to be perceived as something that it isn't.

Maybe I'm being a n00b know-it-all for suggesting what roadfood is when: (a) Jane and Michael's first use of the term came when I was just a kid, (b) genre discussions are inherently navel-gazing and dumb and (c) some of y'all have been doing this for years and have concluded, rightly, that there is no definition. I'll just say that while Skippers was dang good - that shouldn't be overlooked, and my comment when we left was "That was amazing, but what the heck was it doing on the roadfood site?" - it doesn't fit my own preconceived notions, and that those notions haven't been swayed by the experience or, in this case, the very valuable and interesting discussion.

Reasonable arguments on the internet? Are we all grown-ups or something?

As for BJs, I am glad to see it fondly reviewed by Curbside and beteez. Sometimes you look at a place and you just know. There are so many excellent food experiences down there in south Georgia and so many places that I want to revisit - heck, I went to SSI twice in 2010 and didn't get one of those fabulous burgers at Brogen's even once!! - that I don't want to spend time at any investment group's cash cow, no matter how good the shrimp is. With limited time, Sunday closings, and some of our meals taken up by my mother-in-law's wonderful traditional Dutch suppers and her absurdly big breakfasts with a half-dozen jams and spreads, we don't eat at as many places as I'd like anyway.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (DougS)

Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:38 GMT

Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle

Michael, you're probably right, but Roadfood means different things to different people. It has to be inexpensive - the food has to be regional - it has to be mom-and-pop owned... the rules go on and on. In reality there are no rules, of course, just tendencies. It's all taken into account, and in the end, if it feels like Roadfood to the person writing the review (in this case, Michael Stern), then it is, even if it violates some of those "rules."

I seem to get what heartbreaksoup is driving at and tend to agree.
There are tons of excellent eating places from high end to low end out there. Why settle for overpriced food, when just around the corner is a true Mom & Pop eatery offering good food at reasonable prices. Isn't that more what this site is about in all honesty, or is it straying off into the twilight zone. Maybe the Waldorf should rate as road food if the rules are being ignored. Frankly! I would include The Waffle House as road food if rules were ignored. What is probably most important is regional food, good food at reasonable prices.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (beteez)

Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:55 GMT

Skipper's is owned by a group from nearby St Simons Is. It is a nice place, but for a true roadfood experience try B&J's around the corner on 17, It is a simple block building with long tables. They offer a buffet, but for $12 you can get a shrimp basket or $18 a shrimp dinner with over a lb of large fresh shrimp & 2 sides. They are the best shrimp in the area and very reasonable, the owners are also ther if they are open

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Nancypalooza)

Sun, 02 Jan 2011 11:28:58 GMT

Heartbreaksoup, I totally get what you're talking about. I too start to get suspicious whenever I see a too-nice-to-be-locally-financed redesign of a place. The thing is, whenever we trot out the 'what constitutes Roadfood' argument, like we're doing here, it's exactly the exceptions that undo all the rules. Dale would disagree with me, but I think it's still very much a floating definition. (Disclaimer: I haven't been to Skippers and so won't talk about it specifically.)

The expensive rule is broken all the time. Folks from my neck of the woods would balk at the cost of a lobster roll (well, at least before this past season) from a shack in the Northeast and yet that is pretty much the quintessential example of Roadfood. The corporate-owned-and-operated rule is broken all the time. Sometimes those tiny just-squeaking-by shacks are serving excellent, quality food, and sometimes they're serving crap or wildly inconsistent food. Sometimes corporate places are quite good. It only takes a person to make a corporation.

The real bottom line for me is also subjectivity. There are Roadfood stalwarts that I've been to and gone 'eh.' There are places I eat all the time that wouldn't really qualify as Roadfood and might horrify folks on this site. (see also i95's post under the News section about blasphemy.) It's like porn; you know it when you see it. :)

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (MellowRoast)

Fri, 31 Dec 2010 15:54:15 GMT

Lively discussions are always welcome, and Heartbreaksoup has certainly introduced one. If Lawry's The Prime Rib (Chicago) can make the Roadfood roster, I don't see a problem with the single-location Skippers Fish Camp. I hope I'm fortunate enough to visit both, as well as BJ's. And doggone it, speaking of slightly pricy fare, I wish someone would review Norman's Landing in Cumming, GA. Friends tell me it's sensational, and if I get there first, I'll review the place. (I probably won't be able to get the pictures posted, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.)

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Curbside Grill)

Fri, 31 Dec 2010 14:10:16 GMT

Heartbreaksoup

But on our way back to I-95, we passed by a block house called BJ's Steaks and Seafood with a parking lot absolutely packed. I have been wondering for the last 23 hours whether we didn't go to the wrong place.

You have missed one of the best seafood and steak places in GA. Been there a many a times. Party's of 3 -38. Everyone raves.
Have escort/support people showed me the place years ago they get what they want. Some swear about the seafood others loved the Ribeyes. You cannot go wrong there.

My wife is informing me that I am wrong, one trip we had 43 in tow. Very accommodating. plus us.
To many tired and hungry people that day. LOL Just wanted to eat and get back to the Motel in Brunswick

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (seafarer john)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:31:51 GMT

Gail and I ate at Skippers about 4 years ago on a chilly January night. The place looked brand new - I don't think it had been opened very long at that time. We were well satisfied with the food (although we were sorry we chose the big dining room over the oyster bar because the bar seemed more lively than the big room we were in which was nearly empty). We had oysters (don't know where they came from), fried shrimp (presumably local) and a broiled flounder filet. I don't remember what we had to drink - maybe coffee it being such a chilly night. The service was good - why wouldn't it be with so few customers. We'd be happy to go back again, and ,in fact, just might do so on our way south in January.

If you are looking for a fish camp such as you will find along the St Johns and Indian Rivers in Florida, you'll find Skippers much too fancy - but we liked it and we also like the rustic joints in Florida.

BTW: I'd never order gator or cooter again - once was enough at a Florida fish camp, not bad, but there's way too many great things to eat on the menu to waste my time on those two items.

Cheers, John

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Foodbme)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:10:21 GMT

I find this to be a very interesting, intelligent and eloquent conversation. Carry on!

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (wanderingjew)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:35:40 GMT

Heartbreaksoup

I do have to take issue with WJ and Michael Hoffman's judgement-by-website photos... the interior is quite precisely designed to evoke a certain look, in much the same way that Cracker Barrel stores in Maine are designed to look like old country stores from Lebanon TN.

Not sure why, perhaps I'm missing something, Is this place a chain? Based on the website,
there is only one location. Most restaurant owners I know whether their restaurants are backed by corporate sponsors or not design their restaurants to evoke a certain look.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (ann peeples)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:31:20 GMT

I understand that we all may be looking for Mom and Pops that have invested their lives in a place that serves good food, but unfortunately, those establishments seem to be dying as evidenced by the many roadfood forums on places such as those that have closed.So in going with what is out there, we may run into places that are backed by corporate investors but are a one of a kind unique place that serves good food. In my opinion, those reviews and recommendations belong here, and I , for one, trust the reviewers because they are the ones that have been to the Mom and Pops for years;they know good food 99% of the time-i.e. Jane and Michael Stern, Buffetbuster, Wanderingjew, The Mayor-the list goes on and on.If it turns into a chain and goes downhill, then that is another story. But I wont worry about that right now-" I am afraid of tornadoes, but I dont live in my basement". I am sorry you are disappointed in the background of the place as opposed to just having had a fine meal.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:20:55 GMT

Michael, you're probably right, but Roadfood means different things to different people. It has to be inexpensive - the food has to be regional - it has to be mom-and-pop owned... the rules go on and on. In reality there are no rules, of course, just tendencies. It's all taken into account, and in the end, if it feels like Roadfood to the person writing the review (in this case, Michael Stern), then it is, even if it violates some of those "rules."

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Michael Hoffman)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:13:43 GMT

When I said I'd looked at their website, I didn't mean that I just looked at the pictures. I checked out their menus, too. And if that food isn't regional and Roadfoodish I don't know what is.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:13:34 GMT

Heartbreaksoup, I think the reason Michael Stern wrote up Skipper's is he liked the food, and the food is specific to the region. The parameters that define Roadfood on this site tend to be somewhat broader than those that define Roadfood in the books. All that corporate/government stuff surely doesn't work in its favor, but Michael probably felt on balance Skipper's is worth recommending (and he may not have even been aware of much of that backstory, not that it would have necessarily mattered).

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Heartbreaksoup)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 11:58:43 GMT

Hmmm. Perhaps I'm not expressing myself well.

Put another way, Skippers wouldn't exist without corporate investors willing to back a big government scheme to revitalize a flagging economy, and get back a better than 100% return on their investment - there's a 2000-2006 annual report next to the server's station. There is no "Skipper" who's put his life into this place, but many "skippers" who saw an opportunity.

Obviously you can't judge a place by the Sysco truck - my one visit to the wonderful Southern Kitchen in New Market VA saw one backed up and unloading - and you can't judge a place by the "buzz you when your table is ready" boxes - hello, Loveless Cafe in Nashville - and you can't judge a place by the price alone - Blue Willow Inn in Social Circle does all right...

...but this is not a place that, while certainly offering very good local, fresh shrimp, feels in any way like it defines the local character, whatever that's supposed to be in Darien. It feels like the investment opportunity that it clearly is.

While I don't feel like arguing the point too much - I would, however, love to hear from people who have been there - I do have to take issue with WJ and Michael Hoffman's judgement-by-website photos... the interior is quite precisely designed to evoke a certain look, in much the same way that Cracker Barrel stores in Maine are designed to look like old country stores from Lebanon TN.

Maybe that explains it better. While the public-private partnership that resulted in this place getting kickstarted probably required a certain set of stimuli to result in this particular bit of lightning in the bottle, the same gang of investors could open one in every state and you'd wonder why Red Lobster couldn't taste this good.

Re:Skippers Fish Camp in Darien GA... this is roadfood? (Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle)

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 11:52:57 GMT

wanderingjew

it appears Bruce wants a debate- but he's not going to get one. However

That "however" belies your previous statement. But, no, I wasn't looking to debate. Just wanted to get my dig in.