1950's Valentine Diner in today's market?

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 20:03:09 GMT

Here's a classic example of fifties/sixties diner architecture just a few blocks from my house at Kingston Road and Main Street:

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:25:49 GMT

FiveAcreFoods
And Hepcat . . . No, I'd be careful not to fall into parody. I've visited enough cheesy attempts at nostalgic diners to know what works and what doesn't. I like the soup rack too.

You'll need a Kellogg's Snack Pack display as well if you want to be a proper diner. If you can't find an old-fashioned metal one like the one featured in the first picture, plastic ones continue to be sold these days:

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:28:09 GMT

http://www.vpike.com/?e=43.768388,-80.061469:225:40%20MAin%20Street%20Erin%20Canada

This is an old picture, been painted, and different tenants.
I own the building, makes for cheap rent.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:20:36 GMT

Ice Cream Man
Come see me in April and I'll fatten you up.

Is yours the trailer on the north side of the street near the millstream just west of where Steen's Dairy Bar was located?

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:00:28 GMT

Come see me in April and I'll fatten you up.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:57:11 GMT

They do I've tried them all.
Maypoles Ice Cream is as good as it comes and they have 60 flavours. I carry 24, most others I could only get 15 or so that would sell here. When I say sell here, they sell flavours in Toronto that don't sell here. I was selling Orange Pineapple but if they don't sell 500 a year they quit making it. I would sell a hundred a year, they have over a hundred Ice Cream stores, not many others could sell it in their markets.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 11:24:30 GMT

Maypole I understand is a Stoney Creek brand.

Ice Cream Man

There were only three good ones, Stoney Creek, Kawartha and Maypole.

Hewitt's Dairy operates an ice cream bar/diner near Hagersville and Shaw's Dairy operates an ice cream bar just north of Port Stanley but I don't believe either company distributes ice cream as far as Erin.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:25:49 GMT

There were only three good ones, Stoney Creek, Kawartha and Maypole.
We sell Maypole, have for 12 years.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 23:22:53 GMT

Ice Cream Man
Yes it was. The Dairy part left 2 or 3 years ago now the Bar is gone.

Stoney Creek closed at the end of Sept.

Agggghhhhh! Those were two of the dairy owned ice cream bars/soda fountains/luncheonettes I was going to include in a thread I was about to start on the subject!

Hopefully you carry Steen's, Stoney Creek or some other local Ontario dairy's ice cream brand rather than that of some multinational such as Nestle's or Breyer's.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (FiveAcreFoods)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 23:15:10 GMT

Hepcat

FiveAcreFoods
In examining other pre-fab diners from the era, I've noticed a popular layout which seats about 40 (12 at the counter, 28 in booths) in a very efficient use of space. It would almost double the size of the structure, but we're still talking a very small building (still around 1000 sq ft overall) which I still believe could be constructed for $25k -$30K, if I build it myself.

I think you might be overoptimistic with that estimate.

Actually, Hepcat, if anything, I think I'm being generous with that figure. Seriously. I have priced materials pretty thoroughly. Not that much there. I plan to build it myself in my backyard, maybe with the help of a few friends as needed for the big stuff, so therefore I won't have any labor costs to factor in. I can handle all construction, including wiring, & plumbing, myself. I'm sort of a jack-of-all-trades that way. It will essentially be built as two portable buildings, 14' wide by 40' and 30' long which can be hauled on flatbed and assembled together at the final location, just like they did it back in the day.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 17:44:43 GMT

Yes it was. The Dairy part left 2 or 3 years ago now the Bar is gone.
Stoney Creek closed at the end of Sept.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:58:22 GMT

Ice Cream Man

Erin

Oh no! It wasn't Steen's Dairy Bar that closed, was it?

Steen's was a beloved local institution since the atmosphere was just right for a small town diner.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:56:55 GMT

FiveAcreFoods
In examining other pre-fab diners from the era, I've noticed a popular layout which seats about 40 (12 at the counter, 28 in booths) in a very efficient use of space. It would almost double the size of the structure, but we're still talking a very small building (still around 1000 sq ft overall) which I still believe could be constructed for $25k -$30K, if I build it myself.

I think you might be overoptimistic with that estimate.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:38:51 GMT

Erin

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:37:17 GMT

In the right place with excellent food you can make money with no seats. 10 seats one person very little take out you bought yourself a job. 20 seats 2 or 3 people lots of take out you might just get a day off. 10 seats inside plus outdoor seating is seasonal. Just depends what you want. I think most here want just above buy yourself a job. What bothers me most about new carts,trailers or restaurants is the idea that if I'm cheaper I can outsell the existing places instead of being the best at what you do. Before you buy know your food and market. Maybe you will survive.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (FiveAcreFoods)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:14:05 GMT

Ice Cream Man

Not enough seats to make a living and not set up right for take out.

That's the one part of the equation I was really unsure of. I really like the idea of only 10 seats for space and simplicity considerations, but the numbers didn't show good for profits unless you could pack the place at least five hours a day. Not likely.
In examining other pre-fab diners from the era, I've noticed a popular layout which seats about 40 (12 at the counter, 28 in booths) in a very efficient use of space. It would almost double the size of the structure, but we're still talking a very small building (still around 1000 sq ft overall) which I still believe could be constructed for $25k -$30K, if I build it myself.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:50:13 GMT

Ice Cream Man

Just up the street the 68 year old Dairy Bar just closed for good, so next year I will have one less competitor.

Sad for the Dairy Bar's customers but good for you! Whereabouts are you located?

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 12:11:08 GMT

Last Feb we went to Nashville, Memphis, Orlando and back to Memphis, we were going to go to Texas instead of Orlando but there was a storm in east Texas that wouldn't leave. We never saw snow until we got home and that was only a dusting. We don't get much snow anymore I think it's just the east coast and that's just the odd storm. I used to drive through 10 a year that you couldn't see your hood. This year we want to go back to Nashville and then swing west, not really interested in Memphis but it is in our way, but depending on the weather we might head south to Texas instead. What amazed me last year was the lack of traffic and you could get tickets for anything you wanted on the day of the event. Hotels and motels were almost empty. I have noticed the board isn't a lively as it used to be but still a good place, doesn't seem to have a social component unless you go in for the food tours. I hope the OP doesn't mind us talking here, I do love those old Diners would love to have one sitting beside the Ice Cream Store.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Dr of BBQ)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:58:24 GMT

Feb is the coldest month here in Springfield are you sure you want to drive thru Illinois in our most prone to have a major snow storm month?

Anyway glad you had a good season, we have lost a lot of regulars here on the Pro side and from what I'm hearing a lot on the entire road food site. Lots of the older more experienced posters just gave up the fight. And that's sad. But again glad your back.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:28:27 GMT

We had a good year, 2010 was the best down in 11 but back up in 12. What would being in business be without ups and downs. Just up the street the 68 year old Dairy Bar just closed for good, so next year I will have one less competitor. I'll be thinking about my friends here freezing their butts off this winter while I'm relaxing for the winter. The end of Jan we are heading to Cleveland, Nashville, Memphis and on to Arizona. We'll see how things go on the way home, I would love to stop in Springfield around the end of Feb to see what all the fuss is about.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Dr of BBQ)

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 07:00:18 GMT

Ice Cream Man

Lol, What's up Doc.

Welcome back Ice Cream Man how did your season go?

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 19:16:44 GMT

Lol, What's up Doc.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:57:40 GMT

And I understand none would be points of etiquette in your case.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Dr of BBQ)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:42:03 GMT

You just proved my point.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:29:34 GMT

Dr of BBQ

Your an idiot you don't think I can read that you edited your post?

Actually I wasn't thinking about you at all. Why would I?

I do, however, have a compulsion to edit my posts. I'm a perfectionist and I rarely get them absolutely right the first time. I leave out capitals, commas, etc.

What I don't have though is a compulsion to immediately call absolute strangers on discussion forums idiots and question their integrity. Since you, however, do, I'll remember that. Oh, and by the way, it's "You're" in this case, and the Y in "you" should be capitalized. I'm surprised that someone as intelligent as yourself would make such an error.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Dr of BBQ)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:08:10 GMT

Your an idiot you don't think I can read that you edited your post?

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:46:03 GMT

Dr of BBQ
Hepcat I suppose you've see one of these units? No? Sorry but you don't have a clue.

So what else is new?

Dr of BBQ
Cheesey NO way!They are first class from the front door to the big inclosed block garbage area.

I didn't say they were cheesy. I just said they were way too expensive for any kind of economic value proposition.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Ice Cream Man)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:45:49 GMT

Not enough seats to make a living and not set up right for take out.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Dr of BBQ)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:43:39 GMT

Hepcat I suppose you've see one of these units? No? Sorry but you don't have a clue. There most certainly is a foundation, sewers dug, power lines run underground and lets not forget water, telephone asphalt parking, drive up lanes, speaker systems, all heavy duty stainless steel walls, ceiling, overhead replica ceiling fans Walk in coolers (2) walk in Freezers (2). Three grill stations and 3 fry stations all with ansul systems. Interior stainless steel counters and custom built in jukebox at every booth and the list goes on and on. you said Cheesey NO way!They are first class from the front door to the big inclosed block garbage area.

Re:1950's Valentine Diner in today's market? (Hepcat)

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:42:15 GMT

Dr of BBQ

There is a company that builds them already. They come in 3 pieces and are wielded together on your location. They are all stainless steel - chrome and Health Code compliant. I think they run about $400,000.00.

That's an outrageously high price for a prefab structure! You can buy a very decent house in most part of the United States for $400,000. Moreover, the $400,000 for the prefab doesn't even include a lot, which can account for half the price of a house in some places. Furthermore, there's no foundation to be dug, nor is there any time consuming brickwork! Sure, there are specialized fryers, freezers and other restaurant equipment, but there are no luxury bathroom fixtures, granite countertops, hardwood kitchen cabinets or floors. The profit margin on these things is probably well over $300,000!

FiveAcreFoods
And Hepcat . . . No, I'd be careful not to fall into parody. I've visited enough cheesy attempts at nostalgic diners to know what works and what doesn't. I like the soup rack too.

Good! You should have cardboard signs for Coke and hamburgers, Coke and hot dogs, Coke and grill cheese, pie with ice cream, milkshakes, sundaes, banana splits, etc. but they should be advertisements for products you serve, and without any prices of course:

And only retro enough, say seventies vintage looking as opposed to twenties. Your local Coca-Cola franchisee would probably have all kinds for you.