switching to smoke-free

After 20 years, we are planning to change our smoking policy to become totally smoke free at the bar and in the dinning room(which are close to each other). I wonder if anyone of you have made this switch??? Id so, how did it impact your business??(we have become a family restaurant since our 20 something regulars of yester-year have grown up and now have children of there own)I would also like some insight on how to implement procedures for the current staff who are smokers. The entire premises will become smoke-free so i can not designate a smoking lounge for them. Any experiences or thoughts are appreciated?? Thanks much!!

man, its gonna be tough, but well worth it. you will have those who will fight you all the way, be prepared for those who will quit on you, and some who will try to sneak a smoke here and there. be on your extra guard with the employees. i suggest that you have an employee meeting to explain all the new rules to the crew. get them on board. perhaps, they can smoke out by the dumpster...thats what we did, but we had a dumpster cage. i would start warning now that there will be no tolerance of smoking in the bathrooms, and absolutely no one smokes by the front or back or side doors. we had to make it against store policy for any employee to smoke on the premises period. well, i havent worked there in many yrs. but went by the store some time ago, and the fromt door was surrounded by employees smokin....during lunch. couldnt get it without going through a cloud of smoke. i just laughed....

so,,,,,, have your plan for employees, stay focused on it. also, have a good plan for customers. train your crew what to say during the meeting, and stay on top of it, it will take many months for the cycle to break.
perhaps you can give free ash tray to the grumpy guest as they leave.

good luck, and thanks for saving life

Plan to lose business especially at the bar, you'll see. Up here in the Chicago area, the owners are raising h*ll about these bans and the extreme loss of business. I'd wait until it became mandatory.

Up here in the North East it hasn't had any impact, in fact some establisments noticed an increase in their busniess. It's only a matter of time and it will be nation wide. I belive the Live Free or Die state of New Hampshire is voting on going smoke free within the next week or two.
Private clubs saw a brief influx of new busniess but that leveld out over a short period of time. Good Luck, Chow Jim

One of my favorite bar/restaurants in Baltimore just went non-smoking, and I'm thrilled. However, it is so much busier now than it was before that it's sometimes hard to get into the place! Yes, going non-smoking dramatically improved their business.

I have never bought the argument that business drops off after smoking bans. Remember 80% of us DON'T smoke. Why do we cater to the 20% that do? I make good money, and enjoy going out. Wherever possible, I try to spend my money at places with a healthy atmosphere. I suspect most others do this as well, and that's why the non-smoking places around here are hopping!

quote:

Originally posted by joanie41

One of my favorite bar/restaurants in Baltimore just went non-smoking, and I'm thrilled. However, it is so much busier now than it was before that it's sometimes hard to get into the place! Yes, going non-smoking dramatically improved their business.

I have never bought the argument that business drops off after smoking bans. Remember 80% of us DON'T smoke. Why do we cater to the 20% that do? I make good money, and enjoy going out. Wherever possible, I try to spend my money at places with a healthy atmosphere. I suspect most others do this as well, and that's why the non-smoking places around here are hopping!

i beg to differ, while 80% of the total us population doesn't smoke (and i am a nonsmoker myself..) the vast majority of those that regularly hang out in bars do smoke. i can understand why restaurants should be non-smoking establishments, but i believe that bars are totally different and should be allowed to set their own policy regarding smoking.

and yes, non-smoking laws do take a huge tool on bar business. in washington state, bars are closing like crazy and the ones that remain are raising their prices.

A bar in Mt Prospect IL that's still smoking until next month did a poll at the door. 46% were there to smoke. At another bar in Palatine IL has neighbors complaining about the noise coming from patrons smoking outside. What's next? A two drink limit? Energy drinks? Big brother owns us so bad and we sit back and let it happen! Stupid!

nonsmoking bars have been tried, the funny thing is that the hard-core militant anti-smoking nonsmokers don't even want to hang out in those places.... they want to go hang out with the fun people, who generally smoke and drink and have a good time.... but they want that to happen in a smoke-free environment. idiots...

quote:

Originally posted by joanie41

One of my favorite bar/restaurants in Baltimore just went non-smoking, and I'm thrilled. However, it is so much busier now than it was before that it's sometimes hard to get into the place! Yes, going non-smoking dramatically improved their business.

I find that extremely hard to believe. In fact I don’t believe it for one second.

Most bars in Springfield are crying the blues. A great friend here owns a place called Top Cats and he did 2 mil last year. His bar business is down 30% to 40%. And thats exactly what both he and his wife told me.

We have had 4 or 5 bars close (maybe more not sure) in the last two months. The only places that are doing well are the bars that are in incorporated areas that don’t have to comply with the ban. They are packed wall to wall.

The restaurants that were doing well before the ban are doing ok in fact they turn the tables faster because smokers tend to linger over after diner drinks but again their bar business is down.

What I don’t understand about the Smoke Nazis is if I go to a bar on Friday night in Springfield I don’t come home smelling like smoke but I do come home smelling like grease. Everyone cooks fish and that floats through a restaurant like well grease. LOL

Now this summer the bars that have beer gardens hope to do well during the early spring and fall when it’s not outrageously hot outside, but will the smokers come back because they can smoke for a month on the patio? Who knows? I tend to doubt it.

I have many friends that are building great bars in their basements and garages so they and their friends have a place to hang out.

I talked to a beer distributor about this last week and he said that package liquor sales are way up. But the sales tax revenue is way down because the bars are all so slow and the difference in the tax rates.
Jack

quote:

Originally posted by marzsit

quote:

Originally posted by joanie41One of my favorite bar/restaurants in Baltimore just went non-smoking, and I'm thrilled. However, it is so much busier now than it was before that it's sometimes hard to get into the place! Yes, going non-smoking dramatically improved their business.

I have never bought the argument that business drops off after smoking bans. Remember 80% of us DON'T smoke. Why do we cater to the 20% that do? I make good money, and enjoy going out. Wherever possible, I try to spend my money at places with a healthy atmosphere. I suspect most others do this as well, and that's why the non-smoking places around here are hopping!

i beg to differ, while 80% of the total us population doesn't smoke (and i am a nonsmoker myself..) the vast majority of those that regularly hang out in bars do smoke. i can understand why restaurants should be non-smoking establishments, but i believe that bars are totally different and should be allowed to set their own policy regarding smoking.

and yes, non-smoking laws do take a huge tool on bar business. in washington state, bars are closing like crazy and the ones that remain are raising their prices.

How are you differing? She (I'm assuming by the screen name) exercises her right to choose a place that doesn't allow smoking. By extension, she's avoiding a place that does, not dictating her will on the owners or patrons of either place. If, as you say, bars are either closing or raising prices, that sounds more like a taxation issue than a smoking/non-smoking issue to me.

California has been smoke free for years now; as a smoker during most of that time ( am on my third quitting try now- last time went two years ) it certainly cut down on my desire to go to bars..also i did notice several of the smaller dives have closed over the years , but not sure if you can blame that on smoking.
Though I would love to keep smoking if they invented a safe cig, gonna keep trying to quit and hope this time it sticks...I do though support the smoking bans - its just something we should not alow anymore ,just like kicking the dog or having two wives.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Ugly Mich
How are you differing? She (I'm assuming by the screen name) exercises her right to choose a place that doesn't allow smoking. By extension, she's avoiding a place that does, not dictating her will on the owners or patrons of either place. If, as you say, bars are either closing or raising prices, that sounds more like a taxation issue than a smoking/non-smoking issue to me.

i differ in that she claims that banning smoking increases business, which it does not. ask anyone who owns a bar or restaurant in washington state how well their business did in the last half of 2006....

she also states that one of her favorite bars is going non-smoking. if she hates smoking so much, why does she hang out in a smoking establishment in the first place? why not hang out in an existing nonsmoking establishment?

as to bars closing and/or raising prices, your claim that it is due to taxation issues is really silly.. although washington has one of the highest sales and alcohol taxes in the nation, it never kept people away from the bars until now.

Clearly, some of you did not read my last entry carefully. The bar/restaurant that I go to recently CHOSE to change to a non-smoking establishment. Traffic there has INCREASED as a result of this change. I believe it's because Baltimore is not a non-smoking city, and fun bars that are non-smoking are few and far between. However, every single one I've been to (Red Star, Pazo, Golden West) is VERY busy. I'm a healthcare employee who likes to have fun, but who does not want to wear the stench of someone else's stinky habit. And there are lots and lots of us. It's all about marketing. As I said before, I have money to spend on entertainment, and it's not entertaining to have some jerk blowing smoke in my face. You can choose whether you wish to believe me or not; I could cheerfully care less!

I agree there should be places for non smoking people to go-I am fully aware that it is very offensive to some.I am one of those "jerk" smokers,but I do not mind going to places that are smoke free for dinner,etc.But there still should be establishments that can choose whether they go smoke free.It is not an illegal activity.However,drinking and driving after leaving a smoke free or not smoke free club,restaurant,etc.,is.

quote:

Originally posted by annpeeples

I agree there should be places for non smoking people to go-But there still should be establishments that can choose whether they go smoke free.However,drinking and driving after leaving a smoke free or not smoke free club,is.an illegal activity.

Annpeeples,
I understand your post and I have to make two comments. 1st the drinking and driving is not a good counter argument when it comes to the smoking issue.

The bottom line on the smoking issue should be choice nothing more. If you don’t want to be around smokers don’t go to the Bars that allow smoking. It’s funny how anti-smokers think smokers are more fun to hang out with.

2nd It’s not against the law to drive after you’ve been drinking, unless your impaired and states have made laws deciding at what point that impairment becomes a danger to others. In some states it’s .10 in others it’s .08. That may sound like nit picking but here is the reason for my post. If you watch TV much you’ll see a commercial that says it is easy to tell when someone is blitzed but it is much more difficult to tell when your buzzed. (Their choice of words not mine) Then the commercial says it’s against the law to drive buzzed. But what is buzzed? What levels will the next step involve?

I think the non-drinkers are going to try and stop any drinking and driving. I think this ad is a precursor to a run at states one at a time to stop any drinking and driving. I’m betting a zero tolerance is the next step. And I also believe the smoking ban has given the anti-drinking groups the incentive to make a hard charge in that direction. Most likely It’ll be a California initiative and then spread across the country.

We won’t know for a while but I’d bet a shiny new dime that’s the full intent of the ad campaign. Once they pound away with the “driving buzzed is illegal” the sheep-people will fall right in line, and vote for it.

They should stop selling alcohol in public places as i'm offended by over served people! What's next? Purple uniforms for us to wear! It never ends!

a civilized world is formed, by rules and regs and laws.... without them, we woul dstill be living the code of the wild west...
i would like my uniform to be green, please

My point was choice.We all have choices.Whether to smoke or not,whether to drink and drive or not.We dont need bandwagons to get our point across.A Non smoking ordinance killed one of the best steak houses in town,while new non smoking establishments are becoming very popular.Know who the clients generally are(or will be)and go from there.As far as the drinking,The general public doesnt realize how very low the standards have been set.An average size woman can have one drink,and already be at the .08 level for instance.There are many factors that play in,and I shall not go into it as this is not the proper forum.Bottom line,I guess,is I dont like being called a jerk because I smoke.A green uniform for me please,it offsets my eyes....

quote:

Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

quote:

Originally posted by annpeeples

I agree there should be places for non smoking people to go-But there still should be establishments that can choose whether they go smoke free.However,drinking and driving after leaving a smoke free or not smoke free club,is.an illegal activity.

Annpeeples,
I understand your post and I have to make two comments. 1st the drinking and driving is not a good counter argument when it comes to the smoking issue.

The bottom line on the smoking issue should be choice nothing more. If you don’t want to be around smokers don’t go to the Bars that allow smoking. It’s funny how anti-smokers think smokers are more fun to hang out with.

2nd It’s not against the law to drive after you’ve been drinking, unless your impaired and states have made laws deciding at what point that impairment becomes a danger to others. In some states it’s .10 in others it’s .08. That may sound like nit picking but here is the reason for my post. If you watch TV much you’ll see a commercial that says it is easy to tell when someone is blitzed but it is much more difficult to tell when your buzzed. (Their choice of words not mine) Then the commercial says it’s against the law to drive buzzed. But what is buzzed? What levels will the next step involve?

I think the non-drinkers are going to try and stop any drinking and driving. I think this ad is a precursor to a run at states one at a time to stop any drinking and driving. I’m betting a zero tolerance is the next step. And I also believe the smoking ban has given the anti-drinking groups the incentive to make a hard charge in that direction. Most likely It’ll be a California initiative and then spread across the country.

We won’t know for a while but I’d bet a shiny new dime that’s the full intent of the ad campaign. Once they pound away with the “driving buzzed is illegal” the sheep-people will fall right in line, and vote for it.

I do not beleive non-smokers want to hang out with smokers because they're more fun. I've never heard anyone say - "I can't wait to get close to that group because they're smoking" or "I can't wait for my clothes to smell of smoke" or "Those smokers sure look like fun people."

Are smokers more fun? I suppose only if you are a smoker. Beauty is most always in the eye of the beholder.

In our neck of the woods, Central DuPage County, Illinois (west suburbs of Chicago), most towns/villages have NOT passed non-smoking ordinances. Consequently, non-smoking choices are limited. Our Village of apporximately 25,000 folks has 94 restaurants (includes fast food types and approximately 50-55 liquor licenses (includes package and food stores). None are smoke-free,save one, and it's a family dining establishment with no designated bar area.

Our Village has long debated the issue and has hosted several forums and town hall meetings. Business owners (with liquor licenses) are generally in favor as long as the entire county goes along and there appears to be no momentum in that area. Of course, this would make collar towns/villages lose business to establishments on the other side of the county line. Now it bucks up to the state and some movement has occurred but nothing definative. A state ordinance would of course just move the line out further.

Two weeks ago, after a meeting, 7-9 of us went for a beer. We arrived at a local watering hole and the bar was fairly empty, just a few folks dining at the bar tables. Note - the bar and associated tables constitute the smoking area. We ordered and as we were served, a group of 4-5 smokers came in and lit up at the far end of the bar. The owner, a smoker joined them. We re-positioned to the opposite end. Some 20 minutes later, another group of 3-4 entered and began smoking. Our group disbanded. Nothing was said, looks told the story.

I like going to bars for games, discussion, meeting old friends and new folks, catching up, pool, food, the game on TV (usually multiples), etc. I go not because I want to hang out with smokers. I go because that's the current option. Most of this in not replicated in a restaurant.

Finally, when dining, I choose a non smoking section always. I could select the smoking section to "hang out with the more fun smokers" but choose not to. I'd like to see the same options for casual, social and responsible adult consumption of alcoholic beverages.

P.S - Jack, I do consider you to be a member of the beautiful people and would risk life and limb to cross the line and spend some time...anytime!

You are either fun or not fun.Doesnt have anything to do with habits,good or bad.

quote:

Originally posted by annpeeples

You are either fun or not fun.Doesnt have anything to do with habits,good or bad.

I guess I didn't explain myself very well in my last post. I said, "It’s funny how anti-smokers think smokers are more fun to hang out with".

Here’s what I should have said. Here in Springfield we had several restaurants that had very nice bars separate from the dining area that banned smoking. So they were a non-smoking bar. But were they busy? NO in fact you could usually go into one of those bars and sit anywhere you liked no problem. So my thought/question was why didn't the non-smokers end up in mass at those places? It just didn't happen those bars were awesome, well-decorated, good service, great wine, martini list, and class acts all the way down the line. The restaurants did extremely well but the bars no matter the size ended up being a place to wait for a table in the restaurant.

If they had (non-smokers) as an un-official group started to congregate in one of the non-smoking bars would the smokers have gone there to socialize and share drinks with friends I doubt it. Would the non-smokers have been happy to have a class act place to go and socialize with friends watch the big game, celebrate St Patrick’s day, play the games, gamble, what ever I would think so but that did not turn out to be the case. So instead the non-smokers forced the issue and the smokers were pushed out of the places they liked to frequent to watch the big game, celebrate St Patrick’s Day, play the games, and gamble. I don’t understand this. We have bars in Springfield that cater to all types. We have bars that cater to blacks, gays, professionals, the very young; you name it just about any group. And those bars are very popular with those groups.

Why weren’t the non-smokers able to find a place that they felt comfortable in, instead of forcing all bars to conform to their standards? And if it were so cool to be in a non-smoking environment I’d have thought those places would be filled wall to wall with customers that appreciated the bar owners efforts to not allow smoking.

So my conclusion (partially tongue in check) was non-smokers must think smokers are more fun

And before you ask all most all bars in Springfield have 6 to 10 poker machines (we have a couple social clubs that have 20 or more machines) that they openly pay off on, so yes we have gambling in Springfield. Well we did because, according to current local bar owners the income from the poker machines is way down. It seems many of the heaviest gamblers were also smokers.
Ok fire away
Jack

I like to socialize. I like to dance. I like to drink (a bit). I like kareoke. I love to gamble (tables, not slots). I like sports bars. Judging from my full social calendar, I feel confident saying that I AM one of the popular people. And I'm a non-smoker! Imagine that!

And, regarding my earlier post, I don't think all smokers are jerks. I do think the ones who invade my personal space with their smoke are kinda jerky. I don't burp and fart in their face, and I'd appreciate it if they didn't blow smoke in mine. Enough said.

Well posting as someone who actually OWNS bar/resturant
operations along with hotel/motel operations as well
as a few of my family members the no-smoking ban here
in NY has put quite a few places out of business or
cut into bar sales BIG TIME !
My resturant has been non-smoking long before my bar.
Sales did increase some because of it also........

My pet peeve is mostly with my motel operation.
The non smoking zealots who insist on a no smoking
room yet smoke those big Monte Cristo (sic) cigars
and cook fish heads and rice in the rooms. Then the
next crybaby comments the "room smells like smoke"
routine................
I just grin and bear it !!!!!!!!!!!

My friend who owns a bar in NJ is crying about the loss
of business not to mention the complaints from the neighbors
from folks smoking and being noisy outside.............

Just as an aside, I have experienced what I'd be willing to bet is a thicker concentration of smoke than 90-95% of reasonably average people. Guess where that was? AT ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS MEETINGS! In May, I'll celebrate my thirtieth year of sobriety if all goes well.

Congrats to your feat.

*Sigh*,All I have really meant to say is we all have rights and choices.I do not smoke in my home when there are non smokers here.I never insist on smoking in anyones car,etc.I respect non smokers.But if I am in a public place that allows smoking,I am going to smoke.And I am glad there are both types of places for people to go to.

Logic would say with a 3 to 1 non-smoker over smoker population that with an even playing field bars should do OK. If a majority of bar patrons were smokers before a ban it indicates a lot of non-smokers stayed away. I know Hennepin County (Minneapolis and suburbs) went non-smoking and I frequent bars much more than in the past. Bar food is my favorite kind of food and now I can go in comfort. Smokers generally have no idea how obnoxious second hand smoke is to a non-smoker. I went to a bar in Dallas, TX on one of my pork tenderloin pursuits, picked a booth in a corner under an air grill and still wondered if I could make it through dinner. I am not used to to the smoke filled rooms.

I don't allow smoking in my home. The only person that smoked was my mother when she visited. I could not tell her not to, but it took weeks to air out the house before I could no longer detect the odor.

BigUglyMich, in my area, AA meetings are non-smoking. Coffee flows, and people go outside if they want to smoke. I know this because I took some addictions classes as a pharmacy student and one of our assignments was to attend a few AA sessions. I found the meetings very interesting, and the speeches quite compelling.

BigUglyMich - Putting the smoking debate aside, Congratulations on your upcoming 13 year anniversary! That's a major personal accomplishment!

RE:
"In our neck of the woods, Central DuPage County, Illinois (west suburbs of Chicago), most towns/villages have NOT passed non-smoking ordinances. Consequently, non-smoking choices are limited. Our Village of apporximately 25,000 folks has 94 restaurants (includes fast food types and approximately 50-55 liquor licenses (includes package and food stores). None are smoke-free, save one ..."

Which DuPage town is this exactly that has managed to escape having a preponderance of establishments that voluntarily went smoke free before smoking bans started going into effect throughout northeastern Illinois? Having grown up in the SW burbs, currently live in the NW burbs and worked as a newspaper reporter and editor in SW Cook as well as DuPage (Naperville), it has been my experience that most establishments in towns in the metro Chicago area tend to lean smoke-free anyway without any interference from local or state governments. In fact, this seems to be something that gets swept under the rug when this issue is covered in the media (it became an issue after I left the newspaper business). For example, when a smoking ban was proposed in Wheeling, it was briefly noted once that out of 90-some establishments that would be affected, all but two or so were already smoke-free, proving that the market works -- there are choices for everybody, more so for non-smokers. It really annoys me to see letters to the editor from people whining about how they hate smelling like smoke when they go out -- so don't go to those places, and quit forcing the world to change to your elite vision. Business owners should be allowed to decided themselves whether or not to allow smoking, and if they misread the marketplace and decide wrong, so be it.