Sneeze Guard/Food Shield

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C2CD
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2013/07/03 19:53:43 (permalink)

Sneeze Guard/Food Shield

Hello All;
I have a Major Issue here. I am shut down temporarily because of Health Code requirements. I guess the old Inspector was letting some things slide and When the new Inspector showed up today to look at my cart and introduce their self, The welcome was not so nice.
I already had to go out and get roll top lids to cover my other lids that cover my wells. well apparently I need a sneeze guard or food shield to cover the custom condiment table with Ice bin I had made for my cart, even though all the condiments have lids, and I also am suppose to now have a contained unit to keep my tongs and spoons in. What the crap man??? It already takes longer to make a dog having to fool with the roll tops and lids under them now I have to be slowed down even more to get at the condiments?
Anyone have any experience or advice about this? I mean how am I suppose to get a sneeze guard for a custom table without spending a fortune? Any Ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. Also anyone who is familiar with North Carolina Food code who might know a loop hole or something give me a shout please!!! 
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    BpCBlake
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/03 20:02:52 (permalink)
    hmm, just switch to packaged condiments. sounds rough. what if you sneeze?
    #2
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/03 20:14:41 (permalink)
    BpCBlake

    hmm, just switch to packaged condiments. sounds rough. what if you sneeze?

    If I sneeze, I sneeze looking away and into my arm. I can't do Packaged for several reasons. They don't make packaged coleslaw. I can't make a Chicago Dog off Packaged stuff, and I am a professional, they can get a hot dog with packaged condiments at any gas station.
    This is very rough, They are getting out of control each year adding new regs.
    #3
    brickboo
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/03 21:01:30 (permalink)
    Josh,
    I'm convinced that Colorado does not want their towns looking like New York, New Orleans or Chicago with food vendors everywhere. I guess they don't want any tourism that likes street vendors. They must just want the kind that hike and ride bikes and do lots of exercise and such. 
     
    We had a fellow some years back in a mountain town ( I think it was Granby Colorado) that fought the building dept for years about a matter and when they allowed a neighbor to do something similar (I may be wrong about that point) but anyway he got so fed up that he welded a bulldozer with armor plate all around it and bulldozed a substantial part of main street up until they killed him. I think it included some of the committee's and maybe the mayor's businesses downtown.
     
    Perhaps it didn't get national attention, but it happened. It really hurts I guess when they let a friend, relative or someone else get away with something. It's like the "good ole boy" stuff that they always want to pin on Southerners, but it's OK for them to do it.
     
    Hey don't go do anything stupid OK!!! 
    #4
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/03 21:38:33 (permalink)
    brickboo

    Josh,
    I'm convinced that Colorado does not want their towns looking like New York, New Orleans or Chicago with food vendors everywhere. I guess they don't want any tourism that likes street vendors. They must just want the kind that hike and ride bikes and do lots of exercise and such. 

    We had a fellow some years back in a mountain town ( I think it was Granby Colorado) that fought the building dept for years about a matter and when they allowed a neighbor to do something similar (I may be wrong about that point) but anyway he got so fed up that he welded a bulldozer with armor plate all around it and bulldozed a substantial part of main street up until they killed him. I think it included some of the committee's and maybe the mayor's businesses downtown.

    Perhaps it didn't get national attention, but it happened. It really hurts I guess when they let a friend, relative or someone else get away with something. It's like the "good ole boy" stuff that they always want to pin on Southerners, but it's OK for them to do it.

    Hey don't go do anything stupid OK!!! 

    It is totally the good ole boy system around here. I live in a resort town and you would think they would welcome vendors, but it has been hurdle after hurdle with this thing. I only need to do it a few more months to be able to afford to move back home and the got to go throw a wrench in it. FYI you don't have to worry about me going bulldozer on anyone 
    #5
    FriedTater
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/03 23:25:37 (permalink)
    First off, I don`t sell hot dogs. But o how I know about the good ol boy network. It pervails around here a lot, I mean a lot. A lot of you guys post pictures of your carts on RF, very impressive. But something is lacking in everyone I`ve seen, and that is a screen around your cart. Health Dept. here requires it, or so they say. There is one hot dog vendor in town who has no screen, and so far he`s gotten away without having one. So I`m assuming New Mexico is the only state in the nation requiring a screen. Your thoughts and comments are more than welcome.
    #6
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 00:40:31 (permalink)
    FriedTater

    First off, I don`t sell hot dogs. But o how I know about the good ol boy network. It pervails around here a lot, I mean a lot. A lot of you guys post pictures of your carts on RF, very impressive. But something is lacking in everyone I`ve seen, and that is a screen around your cart. Health Dept. here requires it, or so they say. There is one hot dog vendor in town who has no screen, and so far he`s gotten away without having one. So I`m assuming New Mexico is the only state in the nation requiring a screen. Your thoughts and comments are more than welcome.

    I think it is ridiculous, unnecessary, and gives a false sense of sanitation. It slows production and America is about the only place in the world that does it. You don't see this crap at buffets and that is more open than a cart with lids.
    It is just more government crap and hoops to jump through to keep the small business community very small, and allows the brick and mortar restaurant industry to continue selling sub-standard food at premium prices.
    If they were that concerned with safety and proper food handling they would not be blasting us with GMO food, and having a McDonalds,Burger King, Wendy's, and Hardees at darn near every 4 way intersection in America.
    Since you asked 
    #7
    edwmax
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 08:27:20 (permalink)
    HotDogMafia

    Hello All;
    I have a Major Issue here. I am shut down temporarily because of Health Code requirements. I guess the old Inspector was letting some things slide and When the new Inspector showed up today to look at my cart and introduce their self, The welcome was not so nice.
    I already had to go out and get roll top lids to cover my other lids that cover my wells. well apparently I need a sneeze guard or food shield to cover the custom condiment table with Ice bin I had made for my cart, even though all the condiments have lids, and I also am suppose to now have a contained unit to keep my tongs and spoons in. What the crap man??? It already takes longer to make a dog having to fool with the roll tops and lids under them now I have to be slowed down even more to get at the condiments?
    Anyone have any experience or advice about this? I mean how am I suppose to get a sneeze guard for a custom table without spending a fortune? Any Ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. Also anyone who is familiar with North Carolina Food code who might know a loop hole or something give me a shout please!!! 

     
    The NC Food Code can be downloaded: http://charmeck.org/mecklenburg/county/HealthDepartment/EnvironmentalHealth/Programs-Services/FoodserviceandFacilities/Documents/NC%20Food%20Code%20Manual%202009%20FINAL.pdf
     
    Condiment display with lids meets the requirements of 3-306.12   ... 3-306.11 (Food Display)  requires a 'food guard'.    Condiments in a closed container is not 'food on display' and is specifically covered in a separate section which does not indicate an additional 'food guard' to be required.
     
    IN-use Utensils is covered by section 3-304.12 and may be keep within the food with the handle above (slotted lids).  " (A) Except as specified under ¶ (B) of this section, in the FOOD with their handles above the top of the FOOD and the container;"     or on the clean part of the preparation table.
     
    You have a problem with the HD Insp.  ... i suggest getting and keeping a copy of the 'Food Codes" with you and the Cart.  Have the HD Insp point out any section that he might be citing you for.
    #8
    Gravelpie
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 10:00:11 (permalink)
    Lowes hardware sells plexi glass and they will cut it to size for you.  When I hear "sneeze guard" I think flat sheet of plastic suspended over food, not a complete enclosure.  A little stainless steel pipe could be used for  colums to support the plexi glass.  You would need to drill matching holes through the plexi glass and the top of your custom condiment table.  All thread rod would be run through the holes and the stainless pipe and secured with nuts and washers. 
     
    Your health inspector may mean some thing completely different by sneeze guard, so check with the person who is inspecting you before you spend a penny, or drill a single hole.
     
    As far as a contained unit to keep your tongs and spoons in, I got no idea. 
     
    I strongly suggest you talk to your inspector.  Not the health inspections department, I mean the person who is inspecting you.  Have him tell you exactly what he is looking for in a sneeze guard and a utensil container unit.  Here is your oportunity to practice your ass kissing skills.  If you were in any way argumentitive with the new inspector when he shut you down, You are going to need to use extra tongue. You are sure to get plenty of folks encouraging you to make the inspector show you the letter of the law, and bla, bla, bla.  Don't do it.  In any argument with an inspector, be it health, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, fire marshal, ect., you will lose.  Even if you win that specific argument, you still lose, because the inspector will then hold you to the exact letter of every rule and regulation that could even remotely be kind of sort of possibly maybe applied to your business or situation.  Furthermore, he will do this until he feels he has put you in your place or put you out of business.  It's not that he is any more of a dick than you are I, he is just is in a position with that kind of power.  Statisticaly speaking, if you or I had the same power, we would act the same way.  Like it or not, you need this person as your friend, and you cannot afford to have him as your enemy.  Indicate to him that you are eager to comply with his requirements, but funds are tight righ now, and you need his expertese to find the most cost effective way to comply with the rules.  In no way should you suggest you are looking for a loop hole or trying to skirt the rules.  You just want work with him to solve the problem.
     
    Pictures of your condiment table would also help.
     
    #9
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 11:05:33 (permalink)
    Gravelpie

    Lowes hardware sells plexi glass and they will cut it to size for you.  When I hear "sneeze guard" I think flat sheet of plastic suspended over food, not a complete enclosure.  A little stainless steel pipe could be used for  colums to support the plexi glass.  You would need to drill matching holes through the plexi glass and the top of your custom condiment table.  All thread rod would be run through the holes and the stainless pipe and secured with nuts and washers. 

    Your health inspector may mean some thing completely different by sneeze guard, so check with the person who is inspecting you before you spend a penny, or drill a single hole.

    As far as a contained unit to keep your tongs and spoons in, I got no idea. 

    I strongly suggest you talk to your inspector.  Not the health inspections department, I mean the person who is inspecting you.  Have him tell you exactly what he is looking for in a sneeze guard and a utensil container unit.  Here is your oportunity to practice your ass kissing skills.  If you were in any way argumentitive with the new inspector when he shut you down, You are going to need to use extra tongue. You are sure to get plenty of folks encouraging you to make the inspector show you the letter of the law, and bla, bla, bla.  Don't do it.  In any argument with an inspector, be it health, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, fire marshal, ect., you will lose.  Even if you win that specific argument, you still lose, because the inspector will then hold you to the exact letter of every rule and regulation that could even remotely be kind of sort of possibly maybe applied to your business or situation.  Furthermore, he will do this until he feels he has put you in your place or put you out of business.  It's not that he is any more of a dick than you are I, he is just is in a position with that kind of power.  Statisticaly speaking, if you or I had the same power, we would act the same way.  Like it or not, you need this person as your friend, and you cannot afford to have him as your enemy.  Indicate to him that you are eager to comply with his requirements, but funds are tight righ now, and you need his expertese to find the most cost effective way to comply with the rules.  In no way should you suggest you are looking for a loop hole or trying to skirt the rules.  You just want work with him to solve the problem.

    Pictures of your condiment table would also help.


    Well too late. I did kind of have an attitude when he was shutting me down, I mean how could I not when he pulls this B.S. policy out of his hat in front of my customers. I may be in the right here according to a post above, I need to look into those codes he listed, The old HI was a girl and we got along great, this new one is a guy who appears to have an axe to grind, but thanks for the info and I will keep that in mind next time I communicate with him. I'll also check out lowes Hardware. As far as pictures go, anytime I try to post one it says it is too big, I'll try again though 
    #10
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 11:08:20 (permalink)
    edwmax

    HotDogMafia

    Hello All;
    I have a Major Issue here. I am shut down temporarily because of Health Code requirements. I guess the old Inspector was letting some things slide and When the new Inspector showed up today to look at my cart and introduce their self, The welcome was not so nice.
    I already had to go out and get roll top lids to cover my other lids that cover my wells. well apparently I need a sneeze guard or food shield to cover the custom condiment table with Ice bin I had made for my cart, even though all the condiments have lids, and I also am suppose to now have a contained unit to keep my tongs and spoons in. What the crap man??? It already takes longer to make a dog having to fool with the roll tops and lids under them now I have to be slowed down even more to get at the condiments?
    Anyone have any experience or advice about this? I mean how am I suppose to get a sneeze guard for a custom table without spending a fortune? Any Ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. Also anyone who is familiar with North Carolina Food code who might know a loop hole or something give me a shout please!!! 


    The NC Food Code can be downloaded: http://charmeck.org/mecklenburg/county/HealthDepartment/EnvironmentalHealth/Programs-Services/FoodserviceandFacilities/Documents/NC%20Food%20Code%20Manual%202009%20FINAL.pdf

    Condiment display with lids meets the requirements of 3-306.12   ... 3-306.11 (Food Display)  requires a 'food guard'.    Condiments in a closed container is not 'food on display' and is specifically covered in a separate section which does not indicate an additional 'food guard' to be required.

    IN-use Utensils is covered by section 3-304.12 and may be keep within the food with the handle above (slotted lids).  " (A) Except as specified under ¶ (B) of this section, in the FOOD with their handles above the top of the FOOD and the container;"     or on the clean part of the preparation table.

    You have a problem with the HD Insp.  ... i suggest getting and keeping a copy of the 'Food Codes" with you and the Cart.  Have the HD Insp point out any section that he might be citing you for.

    This is extremely helpful info, I have had the hardest time trying to find the codes online, my condiment table has the sixth size pans (5 of them) in a row all with slotted lids
    #11
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 11:16:25 (permalink)
    How do I post a picture? When I click the button beside the youtube button it ask for a URL. I need to upload from my PC, why can't I do this.
    #12
    FriedTater
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 12:28:46 (permalink)
    Grapepie, love your response, right on. And believe you me, I`ve learned the skills of ass kissing years ago. lol
    #13
    Gravelpie
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 14:07:29 (permalink)
    HotDogMafia 
    Well too late. I did kind of have an attitude when he was shutting me down, I mean how could I not when he pulls this B.S. policy out of his hat in front of my customers. I may be in the right here according to a post above, I need to look into those codes he listed, The old HI was a girl and we got along great, this new one is a guy who appears to have an axe to grind, but thanks for the info and I will keep that in mind next time I communicate with him. I'll also check out lowes Hardware. As far as pictures go, anytime I try to post one it says it is too big, I'll try again though 

     
    Call him up and apologize.  Tell him you were having a bad day, tell him your pet 'possum bit your girlfriend that morning. What ever it takes.  At this point, you are going to have to make some modifications to your equipment. There is no way around it.  You just need to know what are the cheapest, quickest, and easiest modifications that will satisfy him. 
     
    As for posting images:  you will need an account with a photo hosting web site.  You can get a free account with several sites.  Upload the photo you want to post to the photo hosting website.  Once your photo is uploaded, you can right click on it and click properties.  You want to copy the URL address for the photo.  When you are writing the message you want to post, click on the little tree button next to the binoculars and paste the image URL in the little box and click insert.  Your image will appear in your post like so.
     

     
    Thats me and a horse.  I'm the one on top. 
    #14
    edwmax
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 14:12:54 (permalink)
    Gravelpie
    ... You are sure to get plenty of folks encouraging you to make the inspector show you the letter of the law, and bla, bla, bla.  Don't do it.  In any argument with an inspector, be it health, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, fire marshal, ect., you will lose.  ...
      Having the Code on hand and having the HD Insp point out the Code sections IS NOT arguing with the Insp.  It shows the Insp, you know the Code as well as he does and stop an Insp from trying to BS his way around.  If any thing having the Code stops an argument before it gets started.   ... I know for real.   But those are another stories.
     
    Gravelpie   .... Even if you win that specific argument, you still lose, because the inspector will then hold you to the exact letter of every rule and regulation that could even remotely be kind of sort of possibly maybe applied to your business or situation.  ...
      SO What!   You should already know the Code governing your business and be in compliance with ALL of the Code and regulations.
     
     
    Gravelpie   ... Furthermore, he will do this until he feels he has put you in your place or put you out of business.  It's not that he is any more of a dick than you are I, he is just is in a position with that kind of power.  Statistical speaking, if you or I had the same power, we would act the same way.   ...


     
    'The same power' is called the 'color of law'.  This makes the HD official personally responsible if he is inappropriately applying the law either by lack of training & knowledge; or by some sort of discrimination (ie: holds you to the Code. but does not hold someone else to the same Code).
     
    42 U.S.C. § 1983, commonly referred to as "section 1983" provides: Every person who under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, Suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia. ...

    post edited by edwmax - 2013/07/04 14:14:36
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    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 15:01:39 (permalink)
    @Gravelpie  So I assume I can't copy a picture from FaceBook or either I am doing it wrong
    #16
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 15:15:21 (permalink)
    @edwmax I agree I am not the type to kiss butt. I operate with integrity and very high standards, I don't feel that I should have to verbally stroke someone off to get them to do the same. A lot of this is B.S. and the good ol boy system at work and I am not a good ol boy, I am not even from around here and think that is a lot of the issue. Someones always afraid someone might get a bigger piece of the pie than them, or they think the pie is theirs. If it is the law fine, if you're just trying to flex and push me around and run me off, not fine. If the local businesses don't like competition, I feel like they need to step up their level of performance or back off. It is sad when folks can come to my humble cart and get better quality food than a sit down restaurant, It is pure laziness on the local business owners part and the local mentality of "It's just tourist, I'll never see them again" and they serve crap with poor service. Don't they see that as long as they have that attitude they will never see them again cause they won't get repeat tourist? Don't the locales see that they have to eat this slop in the off season as long as they allow this system of thinking to continue? I am strongly considering packing it in and moving ahead of schedule, they already got me shut down on the 4th one of my biggest money making days of the year. which is why I suspect foul play here. I might even go out tonight and just sell chili cheese dogs and not have any other condiments!!!!
    post edited by HotDogMafia - 2013/07/04 15:18:50
    #17
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 15:27:00 (permalink)
    *** This is a copy and paste of the email the guy sent me if this helps anyone determine if his action is legitimate*****
     

     a couple of items on the cart will need to be considered based on the following rule in the NC Food Code:
     
    (b) Food and utensils on the pushcart exposed to the public or to dust or insects shall be protected by glass, or otherwise, on the front, top, and ends, and exposed only as much as may be necessary to permit the handling and serving of food.
     
    1) The utensils used on the cart will need to be stored in one of the wells under cover or in an approved covered container to protect them while not in use.
    2) An approved cover that is durable and easy to clean must be provided over the condiments (in addition to the lids and umbrella) that is constructed with a top (large enough to cover the bins of food completely), ends, and back leaving an opening on the front large enough to allow access the lids and condiments.  This will protect the food from items listed in the rule above.  The lids and umbrella are not enough protection according to the State.  This cover must be constructed from a smooth, cleanable,and durable material such as plexiglass or stainless steel and mounted over the condiments so that it can be removed during transport and storage.

    #18
    Gravelpie
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 15:27:33 (permalink)
    edwmax 

      Having the Code on hand and having the HD Insp point out the Code sections IS NOT arguing with the Insp.  It shows the Insp, you know the Code as well as he does and stop an Insp from trying to BS his way around.  If any thing having the Code stops an argument before it gets started.   ... I know for real.   But those are another stories. 

      SO What!   You should already know the Code governing your business and be in compliance with ALL of the Code and regulations.


    'The same power' is called the 'color of law'.  This makes the HD official personally responsible if he is inappropriately applying the law either by lack of training & knowledge; or by some sort of discrimination (ie: holds you to the Code. but does not hold someone else to the same Code).

    42 U.S.C. § 1983, commonly referred to as "section 1983" provides: Every person who under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, Suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia. ...


    You are absolutely right, having the code book on hand and looking at it with the inspector can stop a lot of arguments.  (Assuming both the cart owner and the inspector are willing to admit when they are wrong.  In an adversarial relationship, this is highly unlikely.)  Furthermore, yes you should absolutely be in compliance with the codes for what ever business you are in.  Ideally, you should be better than code because codes are minimum requirements.  However, in any code book there will be individual codes that are poorly written, too broad, vague, contradictory, ect.  My point is should you enter into your dealings with your inspector with a win the argument at all costs attitude, you will create more problems than you solve.  Which would you rather do? sling hot dogs or sit in a court room fighting section 1983 case after 1983 case all the while racking up expensive legal bills with no guarantee of success.  Hotdog Mafia runs one hot dog cart. He is not General Motors.
     
    At this point, Hotdog Mafia has to comply with the sneeze guard rule and the utensil container rule.  Arguing with the inspector or taking an attitude with him is not going to help MR. Mafia at all.  Lets say, for the sake of the argument, that there is a rule in the code book that could be construed to mean that he doesn't need the sneeze guard and after arguing with the inspector with no relief, he goes up the food chain to the inspectors boss and the boss agrees with Hotdog Mafia.  What will subsequent health inspections from this inspector be like?  I'm not talking theoretical this is what the law provides for, I'm talking Beech mountain ain't a big town and the inspector probably has lived there all his life and went to kindergarten with the judge.
     
    Or.
     
    Lets say he kisses a little ass.  "Dang, I sure didn't know about that rule.  You sure are one smart fellow.  What's the best way for me to comply with this here rule, seein' how I ain't got that much money.  What do you think I should do?"  By the way I sure like those bushes you planted in front of your house they look real nice.  What kind of bushes are they?  Did they cost you much? Can I operate as is while I am building, or having shipped what I need to comply? 'cause I sure need the income to pay for these upgrades to my equipment." And ect. and so forth.  Maybe he gets to operate while he is in the process of making his cart compliant.  That alone would be a lot cheaper than being shut down while making modifications to his equipment.  The odds that the inspector is a total idiot are very slim.  Just by talking to him he may come up with a solution that is cheaper and more effective than Hotdog Mafia, or anyone here will come up with.  I don't believe this is far fetched.  That inspector sees the inside of every restaraunt operation in town which is more than can be said for any of us.  What would the atmosphere of subsequent inspections be?  Lets say he happens to be driving by one day and Hotdog Mafia is slam busy and forgets to change his food handling gloves after taking a customers money and he reaches in and grabs a bun for the next customer.  The health inspector sees this.  What will the inspector do if Hotdog Mafia and the inspector have a friendly relationship?  What will he do if they have an adversarial relationship? 
    #19
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 15:56:48 (permalink)

    post edited by HotDogMafia - 2013/07/04 16:46:13
    #20
    edwmax
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    bartl
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 16:32:27 (permalink)
    edwmax You have a problem with the HD Insp.  ... i suggest getting and keeping a copy of the 'Food Codes" with you and the Cart.  Have the HD Insp point out any section that he might be citing you for.

    I would add that you phrase it in such a way as not showing any doubt that there IS a regulation that you are violating; let the inspector find out if there isn't. Approach from a "I want to be legal, but I'm having trouble finding the exact regulation, so that I can make sure that I am in compliance with it" angle.
     
    Note that this is NOT kissing ass. This is (or should be) honesty. Consider your goal: Is it to be in reasonable compliance with the law, or is it to win an argument?
     
    Bart
    post edited by bartl - 2013/07/04 16:41:21
    #22
    Gravelpie
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 16:47:42 (permalink)
    HotDogMafia
    So I did all that, tried it with a quick site I just made on Google sites and it showed up in the box you type in but after I hit post only what I wrote showed up in the thread not the photo " />

     
    Assuming you are inserting an image that is already posted on the web, either on the photo sharing site you are using or any picture on the internet that you want to use in your post:
    Click on the image with the right side mouse button.  A little box pops up with various options.  Click on properties option with the left side mouse button and another box pops up titled properties.  In the general tab one of the properties is Address (URL).  I highlight that address (but not the words Address (URL) then click the left mouse button and right click copy.  Then I compose (Bloviate may be a more accurate term) my message.  When I get to the point in my message that I want to insert an image  I click the little tree button at the top right under font size.  Another box pops up and I click the left mouse button in the rectangle with the flashing cursor.  This causes yet another box to pop up with a bunch of options in it.  I right click on the paste option.  Then I right click on insert.  The image then appears in my message. 
    Reading through what I just wrote, I sound like a condecending prick .  Sorry about that. I don't mean it that way, I'm just trying to be sure I'm not missing any steps and sending you on a wild goose chase.  By the way I'm using a 7 year old desk top with a 7 year old version of windows.  Your mileage may vary if your windows operating system is a newer version or if you are using one of those godless commie operating systems like Linnux or Mac.
    #23
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 16:49:40 (permalink)
    OK I got it to work so the picture above is the custom condiment table in question, the pans you see with slotted lids rest in the well full of ice w/drain. So my question is how do I get something built on top of that which is removable during transportation, yet full covers it as he asked for in the email I copy and pasted above?
    #24
    chefbuba
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 18:27:07 (permalink)
    Easy, need to go to a welder, short piece of pipe, or square channel on each side for brackets, make your sneeze guard out of two pieces of what ever length you need to get the height that you require, bent at a 45.
    Clear plexiglass screwed to that.
    Slide into the guard, hold in place with pins.
    Know what I mean?
    #25
    Gravelpie
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 18:29:07 (permalink)
    HotDogMafia



    Nevermind my last post. I see you figured it out.
     
    If I read the rules you posted, you are required to have a guard that protects on three sides, front, back and top.  If you are going to make it yourself, then I think plexiglass is the way to go.  It can be cut with a hand saw and bent by heating the area to be bent with a heat gun prior to bending.  The link button does not seem to be enabled on this forum, so try googling bending plexi glass.  Lots of vidios and websites pop up.  You'll see it's not that complicated.  As a suggestion, you will need a piece of plexiglass cut to this shape and dimensions:

     
     The dotted lines are fold lines
    A= 3/4 to one inch.  This forms a lip on the upper side of the front opening to stiffen the top.
    B= the hieght from the top of the condiment tray to the top of the sneeze guard plus 1 and 1/2 inches
    C= the distance from the front of the condiment cooler to the edge of the top of the cart plus the thickness of the plexi glass
    D= the hieght from the top of the condiment tray to the top of the sneeze guard
    E= the distance from the left edge to the right edge of the condiment tray plus twice the thickness of the plexi glass
     
    once you have cut out the sheet of plexiglass and made the bends you will need to seal the back corners with a NSF aproved adhesive calk or maybe epoxy.  A stainless steel angle bracket pop riveted to each end of the condiment tray 1 and 1/2 inches down from the top of the condiment tray would hold the sneeze guard  while allowing easy removal and cleaning.
     
    The next question is:
    If the sneeze guard had a door on the front of it, thereby protecting the contents from all four sides and top, would that do away with the need to provide separate storage for the serving utensils?  Meaning, could the utensils be left sticking up through the lids on the condiment trays as long as the door was kept closed between uses? 
    I'm thinking a door that is hinged at the bottom, maybe with a catch that holds it in a horizontal position when open. 
     
    Edit:  I see now why my link button doesn't work.  I haven't been a member long enough.  
     
    post edited by Gravelpie - 2013/07/04 18:32:41
    #26
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 19:04:24 (permalink)
    @Gravelpie I think what you are suggesting is close to what they are wanting. The way I took it from the email I got when I asked for further clarification is that I need a box with  5 sides, no bottom to lay over top during operation, the front side needing to be a door that opens. I assume if I had a sneeze guard/Box on top then I could leave the utensils in the pan with the handles sticking out  through the slotted lids. They stated my tongs had to go under the roll top lids for the other wells. But as it goes with the health dept any time you ask for clarification they simply copy and paste what the vague guidelines are. Which I don't understand or perhaps they don't understand, I mean if I am asking for further clarification that means I don't understand the vague guidelines so I need it broken down a little. Maybe they keep sending that to me because they made it so vague they can't give a straight answer? I Don't know
    #27
    Gravelpie
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 19:57:43 (permalink)
    HotDogMafia:
    Can you post the e-mail they sent you?  I promised my daugter we would go see the fireworks tonight, but I could read it in the morning and maybe come up with something that will work by tomorow night.  Then maybe you could get up with the health inspector monday and show him some proposal drawings and get his take on it before you purchase materials or have a fab shop make something up.
    #28
    C2CD
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/04 21:53:37 (permalink)
    Gravelpie

    HotDogMafia:
    Can you post the e-mail they sent you?  I promised my daugter we would go see the fireworks tonight, but I could read it in the morning and maybe come up with something that will work by tomorow night.  Then maybe you could get up with the health inspector monday and show him some proposal drawings and get his take on it before you purchase materials or have a fab shop make something up.

    I already did, it is above earlier on in this thread. Thanks for taking time to look at this, Hope you and your daughter enjoy they show, ours got rained out   Happy 4th all the same
    #29
    Gravelpie
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    Re:Sneeze Guard/Food Shield 2013/07/06 17:26:09 (permalink)
    HotDogMafia:
    Well, I'm a day late and my scouting trip to Lowes makes me think I might be a dollar too expensive.  Take a look at what I have for you and check with some of the cart builders to see what they might have.
     

     
    The whole thing is made out of 1/4 inch plexiglass.  It is installed by first removing the condiment pans then sliding the unit onto the condiment cooler.  The back of the unit rests on the cooler just behind the pans and the front of the opening rests just in front of the pans.  The ends have a one inch lip that hooks under the cooler. Once the pans are placed in the cooler they prevent the unit from sliding back and forth.  The door is held closed with magnets epoxied in holes drilled in the upper edge of the door and engaging metal plates epoxied to the plastic forming the upper edge of the opening.  The note on this drawing reads: 1 inch wide strip glued to  under side of top and to ends for door to bear against.
     

     
    On the left side of this image is the left end piece.  the right one is exactly the same except the bends are made in the oposite direction.  On the right side of the image is the right hand end of the door.  The left end is exactly the same.  The magnets are spaced one on each end and one in the middle.  This might be overkill.  I would try it with just the one in the middle first.  The hinge bolts are just stainless steel bolts and nuts with two stainless steel washers.  I would use 1/4 inch bolts and nuts, washers to match. 
     
    All the rest of the pieces are just boring old rectangles
     
    Now for the Lowes scouting mission report. 
    1/4 inch thick plexiglass sheet 24x48 inches costs $53.98
    plexiglass knife $3.98
    There was no plexiglass adhesive.  Perhaps 5 minute epoxy at $4.00
    The silicone adhesive they had at the plexiglass display was labled not FDA compliant.  I don't know if Epoxy is FDA compliant either.
    You will need a heat gun to bend the plexiglass.  I didn't price those or the stainless nuts, bolts, and washers.  You will also need a set of vice grip sheet metal pliers.  They have the flat metal plates welded to their jaws for bending sheet metal.  Look to spend about $25 dollars on those if you don't already own them.  That should be about all.  If you have to purchse all the tools and supplies you are probably looking at $100 to $150.  That's why I suggested checking with some cart manufacturers to see what they have in stock and what price.
    #30
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