Switching to nights - need thoughts and tips....

So it's been about 3 months at my daily spot and i think I'm going to make a switch...here's the story.
 
Brand new in the biz....placed my cart at my downtown spot about 3 months ago.  Things started off strong enough and of course the weather was beautiful here in the NW then....fall crisp days full of sunshine in the 70's.  From what I've learned new restaurants (and no we're not a restaurant but I think some things can relate)  can start off with a bang and then level off then you build from there.  The weather has turned...we don't get drifts of snow here but here but we do get wind and rain.  There are several offices around and I know people have liked the dogs but I think the weather is keeping them from coming out of their offices.  I have days that spike high like the first of the month, but for the most part I'm selling 25 dogs....sometimes over 30......a few here and there over 40...not enough as far as I'm concerned. 
 
I got permission from a company to set up in front of their place that is adjacent to the sidewalk and in the middle of the block.  It's in the middle of a block that has several bars and nightlife.  I told myself that I wasn't working anymore late shifts but when push comes to shove, you gotta do what you gotta do....
 
My plan was to arrive at the spot around 10 pm....have food and everything set up by 11...work it until 2:30 am or so....probably crawl in bed not too long before the sun rises....eep.
 
So those of you that work the bar scene with your hot dog cart...anything I should be aware of?  I'm thinking of having my menu even more simple than it is now....maybe very large pics, the name of the dog and a list of the condiments, etc.  I might be overthinking this (and I'm sure you guys will tell me I am.....ha ha) but I'm picturing drunk patrons that can't see straight and trying to figure out what is on what dog.....but maybe it's not that bad?
 
During the day I usually have the cooler off to the side and let my customers grab their own soda but is it stupid to let this type of crowd do that?  Also I'm guessing marketing is a bit different...I use punch cards for my office people, was thinking about doing weekly specials, all that jazz but it seems like the bar crowd just want a dog and all of that stuff really doesn't mean a whole lot....just getting the cart placed in a spot where there are partying folks walking by seems to be the most important thing but I might be oversimplifying it?
 
Any thoughts would be great...thanks!

Hey DJdawg,
 
I have only officially started slinging for a month, and only due late nights on a College Campus. The one thing I learned early was, most people could care less during the late night about any special kind of dog. I switched from Nathans to Bakers & Chefs after the first night, and everyone still loves the hotdogs just as much, and in my area they are about 1/2 the cost. And the hotdog (still 8:1 like Nathans) looks bigger only because it is a little longer than the Nathans brand.
 
The other thing I found out very quickly was that I was not selling any drinks. 1 per shift if I was lucky. I bring a couple just incase each time I go out, but I don't plan on selling any at night. Everyone would rather have another beer instead.
 
Good Luck and let us know how it turns out for you.

Kevin,
I just started in August. I do Mon- Sat at Walgreen's for the last 4 weeks. I helped a friend a while back one weekend.  I did $50 Thursday night at a club. Saturday I did $187. Didn't do much soda, they are full of alcohol. They were happy with mustard, ketchup, relish, onions so on and so forth. I offered chili but 90% or more weren't interested. It's like that with the day folks here in my area too.
 
You probably can do real well with keeping it simple. The propane heaters that mount on the bottle works great. I use one here in the day time and it works great on low. They won't let me set a tent up. I put it about 4 or 5 foot away on low, high is too hot. It has low, med and hi settings. They are between $40 and $50 around here. Home Depot had the best price I found with a 10% discount on Tuesday's in my area.
 
If you don't like cursing, get a pair of ear plugs.

Thanks guys.....so now I'm really confused....ha ha. 
 
tastywieners, you kind of echoed the thoughts I was having.  Not that party goers are stupid and will eat any crap you put in front of them, but that they might be a bit less discerning given the late hour, and the fact that they might be a little inebriated.  However I had thrown this question to a good friend of mine who has been in the mobile hot dog biz for a long time and he's telling me just the opposite.  He says to stick with all of my dogs....specialties and everything....chicago dog, chili cheese.....all the different sausages and stick with my branding.  That I will be unique and different and different then the rest of the carts because of that...
 
So now I don't know what to do....I just got a new order of meats and I plan on starting with the new schedule next week so I'll have to start with a similar menu at least until I sell through this stuff...I might as well try it and see what happens.  I guess the customers will let me know by what they buy and don't buy, right?
 
brickboo....not sure what you were getting at regarding propane heaters and earplugs.....lol.  I have a hot dog cart with a full steam table and it operates off a larger size propane tank....and the ear plugs?  I will not be IN a bar...in fact not even in front of it.....I will be in front of a bank in the middle of the block between bars....it's a very busy thoroughfare for late night folks.

Kevin,
I'm old school. To me hearing the young females M-F,ing for the duration was a bore and disgusting. I kept thinking how would I explain that one of these girls was my daughter. It would be embarrassing and it bothered me a bit. Obviously it doesn't bother the younger generation, I'm sure they think that it is "cool." That's what I suggested the earplugs for ha ha. Just my opinion as an old fart. 
 
I merely was suggesting a heater that attaches to a small propane tank so that you won't freeze your butt off. It is freezing at night where I am. At 2AM it gets into the 20's.
 
As far as what to serve, every place is different. I'm having trouble convincing my back East vending buddies that I can't hardly sell any chili on a dog to most folks in my area. They want it just as the little guys do. Just mustard and ketchup please. 
 
It'd be interesting to hear about what you settle on vending. Condiments and such. You'll be the pro after one weekend. I did the Club with maybe the experience of a total of 20 hot dogs sold previously. I was just helping a friend for those two nights.
 
You'll make a lot of money until it gets too cold for the bars to be crowded. This club could hold 300+ people. It's very large and it was packed. Some came out counting quarters and nickels to buy a hot dog. Man they were so inebriated, I'd say they were drunk.
 
There were at least 10 bouncers. I gave the boss bouncer and a couple of the others a couple free hot dogs. If anyone started getting loud at the cart they'd come over and quiet it down. Three or four of them hung out at the door checking people in and out... I was just 20 -30 feet or so away at the sidewalk.
 
 

Ha...I gotcha now...yes, a heater could definitely be great!  And I'm an old fart too so I understand that part.  I honestly think my location might be good in the sense that I am not directly in front of any bar....at best I might be kind of across the street from a couple.  It seems like any trouble with fights, etc kind of happen when people are just spilling out so hopefully I'll be out of the line of fire.  I spoke with another business today about setting up in front of their place late night....manager wasn't there but I emailed her a few mins ago...hopefully she'll let me.  This would move me up closer to about a half a block more and it would really be a prime area....really hoping she'll say yes....we'll see. 

Something else to think about is lighting. Not only so you can see what you're doing, but so they can see you.

I have been doing late nights for over a year here in maine.  It's in the teens and twenties now and i am still going strong. I just layer up and stay close to my steam tables and have not needed any extra heat.

I also set up by 10 and am usually ready by 1030 or 11.  I find most of my business happens right around 1230.  The bars here close at 1.  I am busy in waves.  I will get a wave right when the bar lets out.  Again if i hang on for a few minutes, and more when the bar employees start to file out.  The main thing is being fast, cheap, and simple.
 
People who want elaborate choices will tend to eat in a restaurant.  Where i am i am lucky to be one of the only businesses willing to be open late.  My only competition is a pizza place.  I average 250-400 a night.  But i sell 2.00 tacos and 6.00 burritos as well as 5.00 quesadilllas.  My turnaround time is generally under 2 minutes, that helps keep lines moving and me from losing customers unwilling to wait.
 
I suggest you develop a relationship with any security or door men in your area.  They like free food and i like free security.  I am in good with 2 guys who work the bars across the street, keeps me safe.
 
I have 2 bars in my area where i get along well with the management and they are regular (generous) patrons.  i deliver to them when they need it and always save some of what i know they like JIC.
 
I dont sell many drinks but always keep water on hand.  Thats the one thing people will ask for where i am.
 
I guess try and have fun... People are out there to have a good time and they consider you a part of that!
 
good luck 
 
Josh

Josh,
You da man!! You nailed it. Simple and fast. Also you're going to be there from 10 PM - 2 PM maybe 3 PM. Would you rather sell tacos or what ever for $5 each and stand around and rest here and there and make $75 a night, or would you rather sell them for $2 or $2.50 and work your butt off and make $200 - $400 a night. You're going to be there if you sell 25 tacos or 125 tacos.
Good post Josh.

Thanks for the input guys....all good stuff.  I think I'm leaning more and more to simplifying my menu....fortunately the price point is higher up here being $4 and $5 per dog.  And great points about water - that makes sense.

Dawg, are you setting up on First ave, with all the bars in that area ?????? I also think having a good quality dog is important. Seattle is a foodie town, just because they drink doesn't mean they don't know what a quality dog tastes like. Your building a business, do it with quality..............hope you do well..............has it stopped raining..................and why not a Seahawk dog................pnwc

I haven't done this for a while, but late nights (bars) are better than lunch by a mile...  If my wife would let me, I would work only Thur, Fri and Sat nights closing bars...  The problem is: Even old guys can get hit on by young girls if they have a decent hotdog in their "cough", hand...  "Hey hotdog man!!!"...
One night two self described lesbians invited me back to their "place" after hours... rediculous is all I can say...  They seemed a little too interested in getting a taste of the 4:1 leftovers...
Another time one young honey was sooo... drunk and could not seem to find her friends or her car, that I had to drive her home myself...  Note: apparently my wife can smell another womans butt on a car seat better than "rin tin tin"...
Had the bright idea of finding a young, blond, leggy thang to work the cart late nights... Bad idea, she got lots of obscene offers, and didn't sell hardly ANY hotdogs...  Again Note: Mama didn't seem to like that idea either.
If you can put up with the distractions it's usually great money and tips, I recall I never did sell much for drinks, but I could have sold a gazillion condoms... (i would actually give a lot away as a hotdog "gag" of sorts.  "That's a big hotdog there, you might need this...")  You better have a sense of humor, and some boxing skills too...  boyfriends are very jealous of "The hotdog man"...
Good luck...  and good health...
 
Seems more appropriate if this had been my 69th post...

A man with a sense of humor.

How to get women with cheap meat.
 

I'm sure every woman in Milwaukee wants some guy selling hot dogs.

Hey chef....I'm not in Seattle anymore....I'm north about 90 miles in a smaller town.  Good corner there...I'm aiming to start next week...either Wed or Thu...haven't decided on which night yet. 
 
 

pnwchef


Dawg, are you setting up on First ave, with all the bars in that area ?????? I also think having a good quality dog is important. Seattle is a foodie town, just because they drink doesn't mean they don't know what a quality dog tastes like. Your building a business, do it with quality..............hope you do well..............has it stopped raining..................and why not a Seahawk dog................pnwc

Hey tbone...thanks for your info...question for you.  How creative did you get with your dogs?  Or did you keep them simple for the tipsy folks?  For instance, right now I offer a Chicago dog and a Chili dog during lunch and I wonder how they would go over late night on the street.  I think if I had them, they would be bought but perhaps customers would just as well buy a simpler dog too?  It's not that I don't want to be creative, offer something unique, etc but if I can make the same amount of money with less work (and to me, not dealing with chili, and all the condiments one needs for chicago dogs = less work) why not do that?  On slow nights it would mean less stuff to throw away which = less shrinkage which = more $ in my pocket at the end of the night....
 
 

tbone654


I haven't done this for a while, but late nights (bars) are better than lunch by a mile...  If my wife would let me, I would work only Thur, Fri and Sat nights closing bars...  The problem is: Even old guys can get hit on by young girls if they have a decent hotdog in their "cough", hand...  "Hey hotdog man!!!"...
One night two self described lesbians invited me back to their "place" after hours... rediculous is all I can say...  They seemed a little too interested in getting a taste of the 4:1 leftovers...
Another time one young honey was sooo... drunk and could not seem to find her friends or her car, that I had to drive her home myself...  Note: apparently my wife can smell another womans butt on a car seat better than "rin tin tin"...
Had the bright idea of finding a young, blond, leggy thang to work the cart late nights... Bad idea, she got lots of obscene offers, and didn't sell hardly ANY hotdogs...  Again Note: Mama didn't seem to like that idea either.
If you can put up with the distractions it's usually great money and tips, I recall I never did sell much for drinks, but I could have sold a gazillion condoms... (i would actually give a lot away as a hotdog "gag" of sorts.  "That's a big hotdog there, you might need this...")  You better have a sense of humor, and some boxing skills too...  boyfriends are very jealous of "The hotdog man"...
Good luck...  and good health...

Seems more appropriate if this had been my 69th post...

JMO, but I think I'd skip the Chicago Dog. Too much stuff to fall off. I'd push the Chili Dog.Seems it would "hit the spot" after a night of drinking. Maybe a 4:1 to make it a one-hand meal. Maybe offer a "party-pak" to take home for those switching over from booze to pot. (It is Wash.)

Kevin,
Like I said, I only did the club thing two nights, to help a friend out, but it's not rocket science. I'd have a $2, $3 and up dog. Just do a plain dog and let them put mustard and ketchup and relish themselves. Offer a jumbo dog for those who still have money left and the few who go mostly for the fun and don't spend all of their money on booze. I'd have one or two different brats too. I'm serious! I had them walking up to the cart counting nickles to see if they had enough money for a dog or just a bag of chips.
 
Some spend all of their pay on this "FUN" and have to borrow money to buy lunch for work on Monday. Go figure. Notice no smiley face here, because I don't think it's funny. I think it's very sad.

Heya DJDawg,
I think this may be my first post since my lurking began back in April. I'll try to be coherent,
 
1. You mentiond trying to decide between Wednesday & Thursday. The business will be about the same on either night. The question you need to asnwer, is what are you doing Thursday and Friday afternoons? Working the bar scene 'til closing will flush the next day half down the toilet. Which day can you afford to be a little sloggy on?
 
2. Yeap to everyone regarding the drinks. I sell maybe 2 sodas and 2 waters per 11:00-3:00 shift.
 
3. Just because the customers may be tipsy doesn't mean they don't know EXACTLY what they want on a dog. My favorite so far was the guy who bought a bag of chips and insited I pour 'em out and scrund 'em all down on the bun before adding the dog, etc.
 
4. Up your price at least a dollar per dog! Chances are they'll pay wih a $5 and leave the rest as a tip...And don't worry about "meal deals"...I sell Nathan's 1/8 or $3...2 for $5.00..No one's gonan want chips and a drink special.
 
4. If you're allowed to use a griddle, keep the onions going, maybe even add some green peppers just for the smell. Smells are especially important at night.
 
5. The closer to the bar the better. Late night, folks wanna get from the bar to the car as quick as possible. Half a block could make a huge difference...For oner spot, I bought a coupla cheap battery powered lanterns. I dind't need the light, but it helpded the customers to notice me. 
 
6. Breath mints and gum can also bring in a little cash. Buy a package of the mints in rolls and split 'em up and sell for $1(the rolls, not individual mints).
 
7. Every other person will suggest that you sell something extra...Pretzels, cotton candy, whatever....Smile and then ignore them. It's dogs, dogs and more dogs, and a sausage or two.
 
8.Make sure the lettering on your signs is LARGE and SIMPLE...It's hard for folks to focus at 1:30 in the morning.
 
9. Music is helpful. I have my car nearby and crank up the Sirius Radio's "Margaritaville Channel."...But not TOO loud.
 
10. One nice things is you don't run into too many inspectors at those hours.
 
11. Jumper cables. Not everyone remembers to turn their lights off by the time they hit the third bar of the evening.
 
12. Don't get sloppy when handling the money. Keep everything pure and simple for them to follow as you hand out the change so the customer knows you're oding it correctly.
 
And again, the site can be it or miss. If it's a hit, then you're golden. If if it's a miss, then it's not gonna get much better as you build up a clientell of faithful followers. Some bar crowds eat. Some don't....Oh and keep a couple of large paper shopping bags very handy, better in the bag than projectile vomitting onto your cart.
 
Best
 
Midnite

Thanks for all your help everyone!  Tonight is my first late night...I'm curious on how it will go.  Fine tuning my menu and I'll head to Staples to get it printed out and laminated. 
 
I've tweaked the menu a bit and dropped the chicago dogs but will leave the chili dog on the menu.  I'm going to drop the roasted garlic cream cheese that I usually put on a chili cheese dog for now...one less thing to prep and deal with.  I feel pretty good at my location (it's better then the original late night one I had set up) as it's right across the street from two very large bars and also across the street from a couple after hours all night food places.   I will be under a pretty large awning so I don't forsee needing to set up my EZ up tent which is nice.  I found some little battery powered Xmas lights (they call them rice lights...a single colored led...very cool!) and bought a couple strings of that so I'll throw them on.  Changed up my cooler to the majority of water but will also be offering a few different sodas just in case. 
 
The local college is on winter break so whatever happens from now until Jan 7th I'll take with a grain of salt.  My son lives here and he's 23 and he says that some students do go home for break but a lot come back so I'm hoping it won't make a huge difference.  We have quite active Wed and Thur nights so my schedule for now is going to be Wed - Sat. 
 
Thanks for the tips midnite!  I think I'll leave my price point where it's at ($4 for the old fashioned wieners and $5 for the 1/4 larger dogs, Polish & Chicken sausage) but I'll keep that in mind.  Those were my lunch prices and most felt that was really reasonable. 

BpCBlake


How to get women with cheap meat.

 
I didn't know Bishops spoke like this.  Frankly I'm shocked....SMH.

Thought I'd give an update....
 
Started nights last Wed and worked Wed - Sat.  Wed night I had my cart and the umbrella up and I bought some battery operated Christmas lights to get some attention.  The lights burned out about an hour after I started...ha ha.  The area I'm set up in is pretty well lit but I was unhappy with how well I showed up....you think people notice you but when alcohol is in play it's really easy to see how I blended in with the rest of the street lights.  That night I sold 10 dogs....even though it was a Wed night there were plenty of people on the street up until 2 am or so.
 
For Thursday I did a major change with the lighting....I first started by setting up the 10x10 EZ up tent and I suspended a nice light from the bar above my steam table which not only lit up the inside in a huge way but I was finally able to tell a Chicken Sausage from a Polish one.  I have a pretty large battery on the cart (over 100 amp battery) so I set up more christmas lights (this time ones that plug in) and without being specific - I did SIGNFICANTLY better then the night before. 
 
Both Fri and Sat were also very good so I'm happy with how things are going so far.  I'm also encouraged because all of this is going on during winter break at the local college!  I find that it's different dealing with drunk people on the street serving them food then it was when I was a karaoke host.  When I was working IN the bar I found that I had little patience with them and it was probably due to the fact that I was always doing 4 things at once and having a drunk karaoke singer start a 10 min conversation with me just irritated me....but I'm actually having fun with them in this setting and am enjoying it much more than I thought. 
 
I've also been active in taking more pics for FB and posting them and that's getting more "likes" which is good..... 

Hey Kevin,
 
How's the business going since you switched since the holidays are out of the way now?
...I guess I'm wondering as maybe I should consider the switch to nights also...or even a "split shift" 
 
And good job on your FB postings!  I'm taking notes

Hey Happy....it's been going well!  I have taken a few nights off here and there (and I shouldn't have)  but I can say that it has been much more consistent overall then the days.....

This thread was way too long for me to read the whole thing but I will throw in a couple tips.  I work a late night college crowd in a huge college city.  I mainly do Thrusday nights but do some others occasionally.  The first thing I noticed was that no one was buying soda...well maybe one or two people but that was it.  Water wasn't selling until I lowered the price to $1...then they started selling more.  So now I only bring one cooler of waters and a few soda's just in case.  Second thing I noticed is that drunk people like it simple.  If you give them too many options they get bogged down trying to understand the "Deal" rather than buying **** up.  Things like buy 2 get one free work better than trying to explain prices lol Simplify the hell out of your menu and it will work wonders.  I put up ap huge sign in front of my cart with prices: single dog = this, 2 dogs = this, and so on.  Also, put up hige signs that say you accept debit and credit.  At first no one knew or assumed that I would accept that.  I just printed som full page signs off the internet and posted them next to the prices and now almost 50% of my sales is from cards.   I'm positioned right between two major bars and I see my share of fights, brawls and arrests.  So be careful how you have your condiments and drinks set up.  If you can, get them out of the way just in case things pop off.  Also, make sure you know what time the bars will close and what time the security and police will be packing up and leaving.  You don't want to be sill breaking things down after everyone else has left because at that point only the troublemakers remain.  Get your things packed up late enough that you hit the late night rush but early enough that you're gone before the crowds of lingerers get rowdy!

Thanks for the tips mdr...some good things there.
 
It's funny because in my area at a certain point the streets become a ghost town...I mean EVERYONE is gone....I've never felt threatened by anyone or anything so knock on wood.  They are partygoers but not troublemakers that I've seen at this point....I also agree about cards....I'm the only hot dog guy that does and I get customers because of it.
 
One thing that I would respectfully disagree with though is regarding the menu....I have simplified things a bit (quit the Chicago Dog that I was doing days) but I still have 3 "recipe" dogs and a naked (choose your own condiments).  This may not be what you mean when you're saying "2 dogs = this", etc but just in case anyone else is reading this and getting pointers, it's a good thing to talk about.
 
From my brief experience in the hot dog vendor world I've learned that vendors sell their dogs in two ways: sell a dog for a cheap price and let people put on their own condiments....or perhaps you put their condiments on but you still sell it "naked" to start with.  The other way is also offering it as part of a menu or recipe item.  (i.e. Chicago Dog, etc)  While I was concerned at first that my tipsy patrons would be a bit challenged by this it hasn't really happened.  In fact people love the different dogs and recipes that I offer and it makes me unique compared to the other generic doggers.  It's the difference between selling an "experience" as opposed to selling a hot dog.  : ) 

Hey djdawg and others,
I played music around the French Quarters and every little town on the Westbank of the Mississippi River in Louisiana, out from New Orleans. I don't know what term you want to use, but there are lots of guys there that like to fight. Many of the places I've worked had bad-a$$ fights. 
 
It's a different mentality there. The folks here mentioning these situations are probably from places similar to NO. Don't forget we still have Rebels there.  
 
LSU football doesn't have plays etc. The quarterback just shouts kill, kill, kill in the huddle. Man if they had plays they could win the Super Bowl every year. LOL!
 
It's a lot more tame here in Western Colorado. Heck you can even take your wife out to eat and you don't have to worry about a guy staring at her. It's a different world.
 
Tourist do no see this in NO. It doesn't go on in those places. The local Cajuns can't afford to go to those places. It's just all tourist. The point is that I can understand what you're saying about no trouble. 
 
On the other hand look where Matt is coming from. Maine also has many people there from Canada that left because they refused to pay tribute to the rulers of England back in the day. They are Cajun Yankees 
 
I was talking to a gentleman here in Grand Junction many years ago. Accent and all I would have bet money that he was from somewhere southern Louisiana. Guess what? He was from Maine, really. Ha ha!
 
Didn't mean to disrupt the post with this info. Hope no one's offended.