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 Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution

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Twinwillow

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Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 10:47 AM (permalink)
In my own case, if it weren't for a greedy landlord, I wouldn't have been forced into retirement. I'm glad the space went vacant for over a year and a half before it was just recently leased.
 
#61
    michaelcarraher

    • Total Posts: 159
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    • Location: Berwyn, PA
    Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 11:07 AM (permalink)
    The original operator dies.  Son takes over.  Business declines.  Not an uncommon story. 
    No wonder people think the media are biased.  The LA Times seemed very willing to depict this as a greedy-landlord story.  Sounds like they made only a token effort to reach the landlord.  But that would have gotten in the way of their greedy-landlord story.
    I bet the restaurant has raised prices in the past three years.  How about a "greedy son takes over restaurant his own man built and gouges longtime customers" story? 
    I can't work up much nostalgia for some LA restaurant that rips off the name of true (and legendary) deli.  But LA makes a habit of stealing from Brooklyn.
     
    #62
      CCinNJ

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      Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 11:14 AM (permalink)
      Yikes.
       
      #63
        kevincad

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        Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 11:26 AM (permalink)
        CCinNJ


        Money yes. The blood sweat and tears when it comes to high-ticket real estate?

        That's all done by the tenants and investors....when the landlord is a REIT.

        I respectfully disagree. I do the bookkeeping, I hire, schedule and time repairs, I hire, schedule and time maintenance, I schedule and hire lawn service, garbage service, on and on. Every time a tenant moves or is removed I have to set up cleaning, painting, etc. More times than not, if a tenant is leaving for non-payment, they destroy the place. It really isn't as easy as it sounds. I had properties in western NY while I was here in Atlanta and ended up dumping those, too far to keep tabs on them. 
         
        #64
          CCinNJ

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          Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 11:37 AM (permalink)
          * when the landlord is a REIT in NYC or Los Angeles
           
          #65
            Ice Cream Man

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            Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 1:27 PM (permalink)
            Twinwillow


            In my own case, if it weren't for a greedy landlord, I wouldn't have been forced into retirement. I'm glad the space went vacant for over a year and a half before it was just recently leased.

            Tell us the rest of your story.
            In my case, I needed 3,000 the tenant wanted to pay 2,500.
            The property was empty for a year. Loss was 30,000, less the cost to have a tenant and my time.
            The new tenant signed a ten year lease at 3,000, 12 x 3,000 = 36,000 x 10 = 360,000.
            Yes the tenant thought I screwed myself but I made more money and didn't have to put up with a bad tenant for a whole year.
             
            #66
              CCinNJ

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              Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 2:15 PM (permalink)
              Ummm... + $500 x 12 = $6000 x 10 = + $60000 - $30000 with whatever insurance tax etc. expense you paid as a landlord for the year.

              That's also if the tenant can stay in business for so long with (knock on wood) good food and business but a parking lot that needs help.

              You said on page 1...

              "It would be no problem if I had the same tenant for 20 years but every time a tenant leaves it can cause a 6 month loss in revenue even if a new tenant moves in right away.
              They always want at least 2 months to renovate, they say that it benefits me, they are improving my building.
              So they make it what they want but then they leave, trouble is it's not what the next tenant wants so we have the expense to rip it out before we can start anew."

              You had leases with prior tenants....no? Can't count numbers until they arrive as $$$$$.

              Idle property always creates -$$$$$$


              That makes a pretty strong case for the value in having a successful popular tenant (2nd Ave. Junior's Ben Benson's The Cottage) and working with them as much as possible. There's risk around every corner when a new tenant moves in....no matter what. No security in a bank...that's for sure.

              All that turnover to come...legal fees...risk of new tenant business failure...idle time is part of the piss poor business decisions that make certain landlords in high-ticket markets constantly unloading properties...because they and many times their investors are in a heap of trouble. That might be a reason why they play fast and hard...because they chase the quickest $$$$$ until they flip it to the next landlord.
              <message edited by CCinNJ on Sat, 12/29/12 3:16 PM>
               
              #67
                Ice Cream Man

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                Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 6:50 PM (permalink)
                 I gave you a real life situation and you just want to twist it. For some reason you think a road food business is more important than a property business. Just remember there would be very few road food businesses with out landlords.
                The first line is right I did make 30,000 more, my costs for the lost year were less than the costs for having a tenant in the space. The rest of your post is just gobbly gook or taken out of context to make irreverent arguments.
                 
                #68
                  CCinNJ

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                  Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Sat, 12/29/12 7:00 PM (permalink)
                  No I don't. I know many of the Roadfood businesses are at a disadvantage with the climate of NYC & Los Angeles real estate. They have built the American Dream and some short-term landlords play the game. That is a shame and in no way anything like your situation.
                  <message edited by CCinNJ on Sat, 12/29/12 7:01 PM>
                   
                  #69
                    mar52

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                    Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 12:32 AM (permalink)
                    I started this thread December 26.
                     
                    Drove by Junior's this evening and it's open, there are customers inside....
                     
                    But all they outdoor signage says...
                     
                    Lenny's Deli!
                     
                    Within two months the location is back in business with a new name.
                     
                    Fishy.
                     
                    #70
                      mar52

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                      Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 12:34 AM (permalink)
                       
                      #71
                        EdSails

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                        Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 1:27 AM (permalink)
                        It helps if you know the area. Junior's is in the middle of Beverly Hills, Westwood, West L.A. and Century City, in the high rent district. That place could be razed and rebuilt as a Bulgari or Prada quite easily. It would work quite well as a high end restaurant. So I do see how Junior's is being pushed out. They just can't pay what that property is worth these days.
                        In an aside, I just got back from San Francisco. My first night's plans were to take a group of people to the Gold Dust Lounge in Union Square, the type of dive bar where you expect to see Sinatra and Sammy Davis drinking in the corner. I had been looking forward to it since it was my favorite bar in SF. I was disappointed to hear that it had closed, same problem, landlord dispute. They will be reopening in a different location, but it won't be the same.
                         
                        #72
                          Ice Cream Man

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                          Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 7:32 AM (permalink)
                          Business is not easy for landlords or tenants. Some lose some win.
                          I bought my building, not because the landlord was unfair but because in 20 years I could pay for my own building or his. I don't need all the space so that makes me a landlord. If I had one piece of advice to give to a business owner it would be buy your location.
                           
                          #73
                            MetroplexJim

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                            Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 7:40 AM (permalink)
                            Ice Cream Man


                            Business is not easy for landlords or tenants. Some lose some win.
                            I bought my building, not because the landlord was unfair but because in 20 years I could pay for my own building or his. I don't need all the space so that makes me a landlord. If I had one piece of advice to give to a business owner it would be buy your location.


                            Yes, ASAP.
                             
                            And certainly before the luxury car and ego and wife-pleasing "MacMansion". 
                             
                            Owning your own premises is the secret to success in the longer run.
                             
                            #74
                              CCinNJ

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                              Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 7:54 AM (permalink)
                              It's pastry Lenny!
                               
                              #75
                                CCinNJ

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                                Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 8:07 AM (permalink)
                                 
                                #76
                                  mar52

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                                  Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 12:30 PM (permalink)
                                  Am I wrong to think that the landlord may have had a tenant long before Junior's left?
                                   
                                  It looked like they were open for business last night.  I'll find out this afternoon.
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  #77
                                    Ice Cream Man

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                                    Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 4:33 PM (permalink)
                                    Maybe, if I had a tenant that said they wouldn't pay what I needed and someone else was willing I would be stupid not to. Just business.
                                     
                                    #78
                                      mar52

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                                      Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Wed, 02/6/13 10:29 PM (permalink)
                                      I'd love a free business which is what it looks like. Everything was there except for the food.  No tables to buy, no display cases, no lighting to buy, no appliances and probably they had an immediate work force.  All they needed was new signage and menus.
                                       
                                      Bring in the food and everything is already there including Junior's good will even though the name is different.
                                       
                                      Maybe because it's my neighborhood (sort of) delicatessen that it upsets me.
                                       
                                      Grand opening is tomorrow so we went to Langer's instead of Lenny's. 
                                       
                                      #79
                                        Ice Cream Man

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                                        Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Thu, 02/7/13 1:10 AM (permalink)
                                        Sorry but nothings free.
                                         
                                        #80
                                          CCinNJ

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                                          Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Thu, 02/7/13 1:29 AM (permalink)
                                          Here's a snapshot Mar...

                                          http://blogs.laweekly.com...isades_restaurants.php


                                          Lenny's replaced one of those restaurants in March of 2011. That previous restaurant replaced Mort's Deli. Lenny's closed that location a few months leading-up to the closing of Junior's.



                                           
                                          #81
                                            EdSails

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                                            Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Thu, 02/7/13 3:48 AM (permalink)
                                            I liked Mort's. Not sure if I'd like Lenny and Squiggies Deli. Shlamezels!
                                             
                                            #82
                                              mar52

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                                              Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Thu, 02/7/13 11:36 AM (permalink)
                                              The term "free business" doesn't mean it didn't cost a cent.
                                               
                                              Moving in to established locations with the same sort of business (in this area) is called a free business.
                                               
                                              Mort's wasn't bad.  Seems to me there was also a Mort's near Sepulveda and National Boulevards.
                                               
                                              #83
                                                Ice Cream Man

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                                                Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Thu, 02/7/13 4:24 PM (permalink)
                                                I've seen lots move in where someone else has been, seems in less than a year they're gone too. If someone walks away it usually isn't worth anything. Sometimes the new place gets the hangover from the bad reputation left from the previous owner.
                                                 
                                                #84
                                                  chewingthefat

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                                                  Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Fri, 02/8/13 1:08 PM (permalink)
                                                  Ice Cream Man


                                                  Business is not easy for landlords or tenants. Some lose some win.
                                                  I bought my building, not because the landlord was unfair but because in 20 years I could pay for my own building or his. I don't need all the space so that makes me a landlord. If I had one piece of advice to give to a business owner it would be buy your location.

                                                  I did, I also have a seperate house I rent to a Alcohol and Drug Rehab Center that some of the staff work out of. I have a Huge Billboard I get $300.00 a month from Clear Channel. Between the two, my net outlay for my 1.8 acre property with my 3000 sq. ft. Restaurant on Rt. 15, is around $200.00/ month...not a bad deal.
                                                   
                                                  #85
                                                    saps

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                                                    Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Fri, 02/8/13 4:56 PM (permalink)
                                                    The ignorance of some people on these boards is amazing.  The old "greedy landlord" stereotype.  A landlord runs a business, just like anyone else.  He typically has a mortgage to pay, real estate taxes, insurance, and operating costs just like anyone else.  He takes real economic risk in the possibility that he loses tenants- at certain times, depending upon the economy, he has to take on expensive build-outs or rent abatements at his own risk.  Most investment property owners aren't rich, and they struggle along in these economies just like everyone else.
                                                     
                                                    Given the choice, a landlord would be a fool not to take a Chase Bank over a Roadfood joint.  Chase is a tenant that would sign a corporate lease, pay more than a local joint, sign a longer term triple-net lease, and is an accredited tenant.  If you're a landlord and you're interested in taking care of your family, you would make that deal in a heartbeat, and you would only be incurring risk by re-signing a restaurant, especially in these times.  Moreover, why is it OK for a Roadfood joint to try and be successful, while it's not OK for the landlord to do his best to be successful?  Why is it that the landlord is responsible for his tenant beyond the stipulations of the lease?  If you've ever owned a property, you know the risks and benefits of ownership.  If you've ever had a building go under 50% occupancy, had it foreclosed upon, and had it taken by the bank, you know the risks.  Most people don't get it.  The "rich, greedy, landlord" stereotype is such a convenient crutch to fall on.  When times are tough, do you know who usually gets paid last?  The landlord. 
                                                     
                                                     If you've ever sat in a courtroom trying to get back 8 months of rent after a tenant has moved out in the middle of the night because he got a better deal somewhere else and has stiffed you, and you've spent substantial $$ on attorneys fees and your time, you might have an idea what I'm talking about.  I don't understand why people think it's OK for a individual to go to work and try to make as much money as he or she can everyday, but it's not OK for a landlord to insure that he or she has the most secure tenant possible that maximizes their profit.  Truly, if a store owner or a resataurant can't pay the going lease rate, is that the landlord's fault?  If the landlord gives the tenant a sweetheart deal and ultimately is overwhelmed by rising expenses over the lease term, who takes care of the "evil landlord"?  And what happens if a less secure tenant goes out of business, leaving the "greedy landlord" with a vacant building, but still with a mortgage, utilities, and taxes to pay?  I guess the "greedy landlord" just deserves that.
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    #86
                                                      CCinNJ

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                                                      Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Fri, 02/8/13 5:03 PM (permalink)
                                                      Most people don't get that Los Angeles & NYC real estate is a different world.
                                                       
                                                       
                                                       
                                                      #87
                                                        mar52

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                                                        Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Fri, 02/8/13 5:31 PM (permalink)
                                                        Saps, you come up with a better title.
                                                         
                                                        It was used for the purpose of getting views and conversation.
                                                         
                                                        It worked.
                                                         
                                                        I am a landlord to a Subway and a hot dog stand.
                                                         
                                                        I know of what you write.  We've lowered the rent in the past years for obvious reasons. 
                                                         
                                                        I was also a tenant... to a greedy landlord. Some do meet the stereotype.
                                                         
                                                        Others do not.
                                                         
                                                        #88
                                                          MetroplexJim

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                                                          Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Fri, 02/8/13 8:10 PM (permalink)
                                                          saps


                                                          The ignorance of some people on these boards is amazing.  The old "greedy landlord" stereotype.  A landlord runs a business, just like anyone else.  He typically has a mortgage to pay, real estate taxes, insurance, and operating costs just like anyone else.  He takes real economic risk in the possibility that he loses tenants- at certain times, depending upon the economy, he has to take on expensive build-outs or rent abatements at his own risk.  Most investment property owners aren't rich, and they struggle along in these economies just like everyone else.

                                                          Given the choice, a landlord would be a fool not to take a Chase Bank over a Roadfood joint.  Chase is a tenant that would sign a corporate lease, pay more than a local joint, sign a longer term triple-net lease, and is an accredited tenant.  If you're a landlord and you're interested in taking care of your family, you would make that deal in a heartbeat, and you would only be incurring risk by re-signing a restaurant, especially in these times.  Moreover, why is it OK for a Roadfood joint to try and be successful, while it's not OK for the landlord to do his best to be successful?  Why is it that the landlord is responsible for his tenant beyond the stipulations of the lease?  If you've ever owned a property, you know the risks and benefits of ownership.  If you've ever had a building go under 50% occupancy, had it foreclosed upon, and had it taken by the bank, you know the risks.  Most people don't get it.  The "rich, greedy, landlord" stereotype is such a convenient crutch to fall on.  When times are tough, do you know who usually gets paid last?  The landlord. 

                                                          If you've ever sat in a courtroom trying to get back 8 months of rent after a tenant has moved out in the middle of the night because he got a better deal somewhere else and has stiffed you, and you've spent substantial $$ on attorneys fees and your time, you might have an idea what I'm talking about.  I don't understand why people think it's OK for a individual to go to work and try to make as much money as he or she can everyday, but it's not OK for a landlord to insure that he or she has the most secure tenant possible that maximizes their profit.  Truly, if a store owner or a restaurant can't pay the going lease rate, is that the landlord's fault?  If the landlord gives the tenant a sweetheart deal and ultimately is overwhelmed by rising expenses over the lease term, who takes care of the "evil landlord"?  And what happens if a less secure tenant goes out of business, leaving the "greedy landlord" with a vacant building, but still with a mortgage, utilities, and taxes to pay?  I guess the "greedy landlord" just deserves that.



                                                          Thank you, saps, for having the patience to write the simple truth in a calm, evocative, eloquent manner.  In the present environment I just cannot "do" calm.
                                                           
                                                          Presently, I teach economics and own properties.  In the former I earn an ever-growing income ( & benefits + pension); in the latter, my net has fallen by 70% over the past five years to the point where I pay more in property tax than I net.
                                                           
                                                          As is typical for those of us who turn 65 as I did last month, I look back and contemplate how life may have been had I taken a different path.  Frankly, the "greediest" path not taken was my declining, at 30, a GS-13/14 position with the then newly formed Department of Energy.  At that point "the Administration" was having a difficult time making breeder reactor technology (falsely) "look bad" and it, evidently, needed a man of my talents.  Had I signed on for that in 1978, today's 'financial worst case' (should I have spent 35 years being a vegetable with just a sandwich and the Washington Post in my fine leather briefcase) would be $160K + benefits and entitlement at any time to take a $100K + benefits pension + a 'double dip' for social security benefits earned prior to government "service".
                                                           
                                                          But, someone took that job.
                                                           
                                                          Maybe that individual, like a grad-school buddy, did something truly spectacular:  like earning his 10,000th. Master Point in Contract Bridge while on the government teat payroll.
                                                           
                                                          You and I are still paying ....  and that individual is laughing, and will brag at his next class reunion about the immense POWER he has exercised during his 'career' as a 'public servant'.
                                                           
                                                          I'm glad that was a "road not taken"; in one way or another I would have died from some manifestation of shame years ago.
                                                           
                                                          Edit:  I find it terribly amusing that someone saw fit to "flag" this personal reminiscence/reflection.
                                                          <message edited by MetroplexJim on Sat, 02/9/13 10:37 AM>
                                                           
                                                          #89
                                                            mar52

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                                                            Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution Fri, 02/8/13 8:20 PM (permalink)
                                                            Lenny's opened yesterday...  Same employees and same phone number as Junior's.
                                                             
                                                            Happy that the employees didn't lose their jobs.
                                                             
                                                            Hope that Lenny's paid Juniors well for that phone number.
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            #90
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