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 Asian Carp

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Sundancer7

Asian Carp Thu, 06/21/07 6:13 PM (permalink)
I saw an intersting article on CNN Headline News today regarding the Asian Carp on the Illinois River. They indicated that this fish was an ecological disaster as they were introducated about 30 years ago as a fish that would eat algae but instead they were eating everything else. In addition they jump huge distances and the CNN video clearly indicated the person who was doing the video was hit three times by the fish as they jump.

These things were probably about 10 lbs each and they appeared that there were thousands of them.

They have not made it up to mile 641 on the Tennesee River where I live but the map indicated that they were on the way.

I have never seen anything like it as the video showed clearly hundreds of them jumping several feet in the air and landing in the boat.

They indicated that there was a small market for them but not enought to diminish their presence. Looks to me like protein is protein.

http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/invasive/asiancarp/

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN
 
#1
    Wannabchef

    • Total Posts: 157
    • Joined: 6/8/2007
    • Location: Boise, ID
    RE: Asian Carp Thu, 06/21/07 6:31 PM (permalink)
    Sundance - maybe so, but the ecoculture is very very vunerable.....please see below:

    Asian carp are a significant threat to the Great Lakes because of their size, fecundity, and ability to consume large amounts of food. Asian carp can grow to 100 pounds and up to four feet. They are well-suited to the cold water climate of the Great Lakes region, which is similar to their native Eastern Hemisphere habitats. It is expected that they would compete for food with the valuable sport and commercial fish. If they entered the system, they would likely become a dominant species in the Great Lakes.

    Two species of Asian carp-the silver and the bighead carps-escaped into the Mississippi River from southern aquaculture facilities in the early 1990s when the facilities were flooded. Steadily, the carp have made their way northward, becoming the most abundant species in some areas of the Mississippi, out-competing native fish, and causing severe hardship to the people who fish the river. The Chicago Ship and Sanitary Canal connects the Mississippi River to the Great Lakes. Currently, the carp are in the canal and have been sighted approximately 40 miles from Lake Michigan.

    Do we really want them to be the only edible choices in the Great Lake Region?
     
    #2
      Sundancer7

      RE: Asian Carp Thu, 06/21/07 7:02 PM (permalink)
      I think more than anything, CNN was trying to demonstrate that these jumping fish were a danger to folks that were traveling on the river. The guy doing the video was hit several times by 10lb fish while traveling on the river.

      It was incredible how many of them were jumping in the boat.

      Paul E. Smith
      Knoxville, TN
       
      #3
        Oneiron339

        • Total Posts: 2075
        • Joined: 2/13/2002
        • Location: Marietta, GA
        RE: Asian Carp Fri, 06/22/07 6:57 AM (permalink)
        Blame it on Bush and global warming.
         
        #4
          6star

          • Total Posts: 4388
          • Joined: 1/28/2004
          • Location: West Peoria, IL
          RE: Asian Carp Fri, 06/22/07 9:43 AM (permalink)
          quote:
          Originally posted by Oneiron339

          Blame it on Bush and global warming.

          Although I am not a Bush fan, this is not one that you can blame on him.

          The original blame for this goes all the way back to the late 1800s. Before 1900 there was no connection between the Mississippi River basin and the Great Lakes. Chicago has always gotten its water supply from Lake Michigan and the Chicago River originally flowed into Lake Michigan, but was not connected in any way to the Illinois River. Since, in the 1800s, Chicago was dumping their sewage into the Chicago River, they discovered they were polluting their own drinking water in Lake Michigan. (Duh!) Instead of treating their sewage, they decided to send their sh!t downstate via the Illinois River. (Thank you SO much, Chicago.) They figured that they could do this by connecting the Chicago and the Illinois rivers via the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal and reversing the flow of the Chicago River, which they accomplished in 1900.

          The Illinois River used to have a lot of catfish and other good fish and very few carp of any kind. Carp are trash fish, not a good eating fish, since they are loaded with pin bones. Carp love to eat sewage, so when we got Chicago's sewage downstate, the carp started to flourish and other fish started to die out. (There are still some catfish and other good fish in the Illinois River today, but nothing like it used to be.)

          Fast foreward to the present. As was said, the Asian carp (also a trash fish) have made their way up the Mississippi River watershed and are now a really big (pun intended) presence in the Illinois River. Protein may be protein, but carp of any type are not what most people in the United States want to get served in a restaurant. The Asian carp do not get a premium price in foreign markets and the hazards associated with catching them are great, so no fishing industry for them has really developed. There have been a few fishing contests for them, but the fish caught during the contests are generally just destroyed.

          Since many people along the Illinois River enjoy boating and water sports of all types as well as fishing on the river, the giant jumping Asian carp now more and more affect a wide variety of people and activities. It is too bad shock barriers weren't put in place years ago on the Mississippi River to contain these carp before they started spreading.
           
          #5
            the grillman

            • Total Posts: 624
            • Joined: 6/27/2005
            • Location: Saint Charles, MO
            RE: Asian Carp Fri, 06/22/07 10:25 AM (permalink)
            I spend a couple weekends each year along the upper Mississippi between Hannibal and Quincy. The Asian carp are there in pretty big numbers, and it’s pretty unnerving to have one come flying across the boat when you aren’t looking. I haven’t been hit by one yet, but I know people that have. Something about the boat motor noise and vibrations seem to attract them.

            I’ll agree that non-native species, such as the Asian carp, or the zebra mussel, have been ecological disasters….

            There are a few places around in small towns that serve a decent buffalo fish sandwich, which are similar to carp, but seem less bony. I haven’t tried carp since I was a kid; my grandmother used to fix them baked, with a tomato-creole-type sauce. To my 10 year old palate, it seemed pretty disgusting then, and I’m not sure I’d go for creole carp now…
             
            #6
              Michael Hoffman

              • Total Posts: 17845
              • Joined: 7/1/2000
              • Location: Gahanna, OH
              RE: Asian Carp Fri, 06/22/07 11:29 AM (permalink)
              A guy in Chicago named Paul Pezalla has been making a living off those carp in the Chicago River. He runs carp tournaments, and he imports and sells British carp baits rough-fish fishing gear.
               
              #7
                rongmtek

                • Total Posts: 503
                • Joined: 4/24/2006
                • Location: Bedford Corners, NY
                RE: Asian Carp Fri, 06/22/07 11:54 AM (permalink)
                Yes, I agree- first it was the poison dog food, and now Thomas The Tank Engine is painted with lead.

                Oh- I thought you said Asian CRAP.
                Never mind.
                E. Litella
                 
                #8
                  tmiles

                  • Total Posts: 1910
                  • Joined: 10/1/2004
                  • Location: Millbury, MA
                  RE: Asian Carp Fri, 06/22/07 2:29 PM (permalink)
                  I saw a story somewhere about 5 or 6 months ago. A small commercial market is slowly building, but like stlouisguy I am not looking forward to eating Asian Carp. Protein is protein, perhaps, when one is trying to balance an animal ration, and carp my be better than Soylent Green, but I prefer to eat for pleasure rather than simple survival. I expect that most other Americans feel the same way. Maybe we can find an efficient way to catch them for animal food (without catching valuable fish that we want to protect).
                   
                  #9
                    Sonny Funzio

                    • Total Posts: 902
                    • Joined: 2/13/2006
                    • Location: Detroit, MI
                    RE: Asian Carp Tue, 06/26/07 5:40 PM (permalink)
                    From what I've read the Asian Carp is said to be good eating and quite mild tasting.

                    The following is a description from Schafer Fish, one of the largest processors and exporters of asian carp in the country ...
                    "World wide, this Chinese delicacy is the most eaten fish, and it’s considered the Cadillac of fish in Asian countries. Product feature is firm, clean, and slightly translucent with metallic sheen like that of whitefish and trout. Product taste is not fishy, similar to pollock. Will readily absorb spices and marinades. "

                    Fishing for them (if you can call it that) sounds fairly exciting - and apparently dangerous from the reports of fairly serious injuries ... a sort of fishing for Roman gladiators ... Put on your hockey goalies mask and helmet, some sports-type body armor, grab a CDD (Carp Deflection Device) such as a trash can lid, a heavy duty net ... and a cooler of beer (always drank while facing the rear of the boat), and charge into battle.

                    Here is a link to a webpage with a number of Asian Carp recipes.
                    The photo of the deep fried carp looks right tasty!.
                    http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/2002/oi020509.html


                     
                    #10
                      CCJPO

                      • Total Posts: 497
                      • Joined: 4/20/2003
                      • Location: Fallon, NV
                      RE: Asian Carp Tue, 06/26/07 7:19 PM (permalink)
                      I recall posting a great CARP recipe on on a PLANK COOKING topic many moons ago, but I don't know how to direct you to that specific roadfood topic.

                      CARP are fun to catch, as they put up a great fight.

                      Personally I grind them up and use them for fertilizer, it does wonders for my tomatoes.
                       
                      #11
                        MilwFoodlovers

                        • Total Posts: 3095
                        • Joined: 3/31/2001
                        • Location: Milwaukee, WI
                        RE: Asian Carp Tue, 06/26/07 7:41 PM (permalink)
                        I'd order them at least once.
                         
                        #12
                          pimple2

                          • Total Posts: 90
                          • Joined: 7/23/2003
                          • Location: ithaca, NY
                          RE: Asian Carp Thu, 08/2/07 11:40 PM (permalink)
                          Remember when sushi/sahimi was nothing but stinking raw fish? Now it is available at the Yankees stadium and at gas station convenience stores in upstate New York, not exactly cutting edge of food trends.

                          The point is that things change, tastes change. Asian carp and European carp are indeed extremely prized. The Indian Great carps, especially Labeo rohita, is another highly prized fish that long has been studied in Florida. Hybrids of Labeo rohita and the Silver carp are sterlile, exhibit hybrid vigor, are temperature limited and can outcompete some of the Asian carps from the rivers they now infest.

                          These carps specialize in particular zones of the river and thus are used in carp polyculture in Asia. Some are column feeders, some bottom, yet others like the grass carp perform an invaluable service by eating noxious water weeds. So please, let us not be so carelessly dismissive based on scant information. Because the so called "good eating fishes" such as introduced trout, bass, pike etc. did a number on the native ecology of the US rivers with their extremely rich populations of suckers, chubs [many types] and the largest number of species of freshwater clams.

                          'Good eating' depends on your cultural perspective. Ask any Chinese or South-East Asian, and they might suggest that the carp make really excellent eating. So would emigrants from Middle and eastern Europe just a century ago, from whom many roadfood readers undoubtedly claim descent!!!! Even today, the famous gefilte fish of the Jewish High Holy days takes advantage of carp and there are purveyors of such.

                          Why do we modern Americans applaud ridicule, loathing, xenophobia etc. when we all are children of emigrants who had to adapt to changing and bwildering circumstances, and did so with dignity and built up a unified nation? This unfortunate modern attribute will not serve us well in the times at hand.

                          Just as we have genuinely learnt to enjoy Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese and so many other foods and make them our own, maybe we need to think a bit and see if carp cannot be integrated into our diets as well in innovative and utterly delightful ways that we have not yet considered.

                          When we do consider such, fish like carp, mullet, mackerel and many others instead of appearing to be trash, will become pleasing. Remember that just in the 20s and 30s bluefin and yellowfin tuna was deemed a nuisance by east coast fishermen.

                          Even now, fishermen off the Carolinas throw away as too fatty the parts most prized by the Japanese for sushi.

                          Here is Jeffrey Steingarten writing in "Toro, Toro, Toro, April 2000:

                          Not only is it customary in this part of the world [Hatteras] not to separate the o-toro aand the chu-toro from the loin, but the fattiest part of the belly , five pounds of he priceless kama, two thick triangles joined along one edge, is, --- strap yourself in for this one --- thrown into the trash! they used to toss it to the dogs that prowl the marina, but the wooden deck got stained by the fat---defaced by o-toro."

                          How long must we demand that the world dance to our tune and complain when it does not?

                           
                          #13
                            jimcor

                            • Total Posts: 148
                            • Joined: 1/25/2005
                            • Location: Lexington, KY
                            RE: Asian Carp Fri, 08/3/07 6:56 AM (permalink)
                            Mr. or Ms Pimple2, you come here to preach politically correct carp?

                            Don't ever recall ever reading a thread on this site where Americans demanded the rest of the world dance to our tune. Just because that's the way YOU feel don't attribute the same characteristics to US. You've got some guilt problems, maybe seeking out a professional could help.
                             
                            #14
                              jimcor

                              • Total Posts: 148
                              • Joined: 1/25/2005
                              • Location: Lexington, KY
                              RE: Asian Carp Fri, 08/3/07 9:44 AM (permalink)
                              Here is a YouTube video that will shock the peanuts out of your M&Ms. There are millions of these fish eating their way to the Great Lakes.

                              Part One;
                              http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yS7zkTnQVaM&NR=1


                              Part Two:
                              http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2ChwJiKKBdA&mode=related&search=


                               
                              #15
                                Sundancer7

                                RE: Asian Carp Fri, 08/3/07 10:05 AM (permalink)
                                I hope they do not make it to mile 641 on the Tennessee River but they probably will. The Zebra mussel has made it this far.

                                Paul E. Smith
                                Knoxville, TN
                                 
                                #16
                                  Hillbilly

                                  • Total Posts: 992
                                  • Joined: 8/9/2001
                                  • Location: North Wilkesboro, NC
                                  RE: Asian Carp Fri, 08/3/07 1:31 PM (permalink)
                                  quote:
                                  Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

                                  I'd order them at least once.


                                  I did. Joe Tess Place on Ames street in Omaha specializes in carp.

                                  I have absolutely no desire to try them again.
                                   
                                  #17
                                    Ivyhouse

                                    • Total Posts: 329
                                    • Joined: 3/27/2006
                                    • Location: Bethesda, MD
                                    RE: Asian Carp Fri, 08/3/07 2:08 PM (permalink)
                                    Hillbilly,

                                    I thought Joe Tess specialized in catfish? I remember going there years ago specifically for their catfish.

                                    Karen
                                     
                                    #18
                                      Hillbilly

                                      • Total Posts: 992
                                      • Joined: 8/9/2001
                                      • Location: North Wilkesboro, NC
                                      RE: Asian Carp Fri, 08/3/07 2:38 PM (permalink)
                                      Maybe it was just their special when I ate there, but it had come to my attention because they advertised carp and I went there specifically to try the carp (and wished I hadn't).

                                       
                                      #19
                                        Sonny Funzio

                                        • Total Posts: 902
                                        • Joined: 2/13/2006
                                        • Location: Detroit, MI
                                        RE: Asian Carp Sat, 08/4/07 1:29 PM (permalink)
                                        quote:
                                        Originally posted by pimple2

                                        Why do we modern Americans applaud ridicule, loathing, xenophobia etc. ... How long must we demand that the world dance to our tune and complain when it does not?


                                        Pimp, I agree that our thinking in this country can often be, how shall we say, insulated to the point of narrow-mindedness ... but c'mon, we're talking about godamned carp here.
                                        Your food points are mostly all spot-on. Your comments about the world "dancing to our tune" comes across a bit like some anti-globalization rhetoric I've heard. The fact is, extremes at either end of the PC spectrum are a form of close-mindedness.
                                        Peoples personal tastes in food are ... well, personal. And yes, the flip side of personal might be fickle. But that's their right ... just like the type of art they personally find attractive is.

                                        Personally, there is not much in the way of food I will not try... including asian carp.
                                        Some people have pre-conceived notions of whether eating any "carp" is tasteful ... much of it probably rooted in ideas like "bottom feeder", "greasy", "pollutants" and "trash fish" ... all "loaded" descriptions that, unfortunately, are carelessly applied without much real thought about accuracy.

                                        As specifically noted in my other post, there are real and positive reports on the edibility of Asian carp. And the pics at the link look pretty good. Like I say, I'm looking forward to trying it ... and if I see some at the fish market, I will.

                                        quote:
                                        Originally posted by Hillbilly


                                        I did. Joe Tess Place on Ames street in Omaha specializes in carp.

                                        I have absolutely no desire to try them again.


                                        Hillbilly, were these specifically the "Asian" versions of carp that you tried?
                                        What didn't you like about it? Taste? ... Too many bones?

                                        As noted at that link I posted, the best eating Asian Carp are specifically the smaller fish as their numerous bones are so fine as to mostly dissolve when cooked, and as well they have an even milder flavor.


                                        (for what it's worth, personally I generally avoid *all* larger inland-caught fish due to pollution concerns.)

                                         
                                        #20
                                          jimcor

                                          • Total Posts: 148
                                          • Joined: 1/25/2005
                                          • Location: Lexington, KY
                                          RE: Asian Carp Sat, 08/4/07 6:00 PM (permalink)
                                          quote:
                                          Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

                                          A guy in Chicago named Paul Pezalla has been making a living off those carp in the Chicago River. He runs carp tournaments, and he imports and sells British carp baits rough-fish fishing gear.


                                          These carp, the Asian silver and Bighead are filter feeders, like our Paddlefish. They eat and breathe at the same time. This species doesn't have a stomach, they don't eat insects or other fish. Plankton and detritus in the water is their nurishment. This means the only way to catch one with a rod and reel is by snagging one with a big treble hook, which is what a Paddlefisherman uses below the big river dams during most states' limited fishing seasons for this pre-historic fish. After viewing the above videos if you want to catch an Asian carp it would seem almost imposssible not to, if the waterway was infested with them, with any kind of hook, sinker and rod and reel combo.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            Hillbilly

                                            • Total Posts: 992
                                            • Joined: 8/9/2001
                                            • Location: North Wilkesboro, NC
                                            RE: Asian Carp Sat, 08/4/07 6:04 PM (permalink)
                                            quote:
                                            Originally posted by Sonny Funzio



                                            Hillbilly, were these specifically the "Asian" versions of carp that you tried?
                                            What didn't you like about it? Taste? ... Too many bones?
                                            i]


                                            I didn't inquire about the region of orgin or ethnicity. The menu simply listed "carp", I gave it a try and didn't like it. The strong, unusual (to me) taste was the reason.
                                             
                                            #22
                                              Adjudicator

                                              • Total Posts: 5057
                                              • Joined: 5/20/2003
                                              • Location: Tallahassee, FL
                                              RE: Asian Carp Sun, 08/5/07 11:55 AM (permalink)
                                              Isn't Carp one of those fish that have to be cooked (prepared) like "sucker sides"???
                                               
                                              #23
                                                HollyDolly

                                                • Total Posts: 1065
                                                • Joined: 1/18/2006
                                                • Location: Schertz, TX
                                                RE: Asian Carp Tue, 08/7/07 9:52 AM (permalink)
                                                Can you eat paddlefish? I don't think we have any asian carp here in Texas waters that I know of. We do have tilapia I think.
                                                Yes,carp is considered a delicacy in Asia.I have a childrens story book from the 1960s when we lived on Okinawa.the stories in it are mainly chinese folk stories.there is one in there about a magical carp.
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  jimcor

                                                  • Total Posts: 148
                                                  • Joined: 1/25/2005
                                                  • Location: Lexington, KY
                                                  RE: Asian Carp Tue, 08/7/07 5:19 PM (permalink)
                                                  quote:
                                                  Originally posted by HollyDolly

                                                  Can you eat paddlefish?


                                                  Not if you follow jewish dietary laws. Fish must swim, have scales and fins. Paddlefish have no scales, neither do catfish, so yes you can eat paddlefish and you can eat catfish, but should you?
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    Sundancer7

                                                    RE: Asian Carp Tue, 08/7/07 6:54 PM (permalink)
                                                    quote:
                                                    Originally posted by Hillbilly

                                                    quote:
                                                    Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

                                                    I'd order them at least once.


                                                    I did. Joe Tess Place on Ames street in Omaha specializes in carp.

                                                    I have absolutely no desire to try them again.


                                                    I have been to Joe Tess's place in Omaha many times. Most of the time I have bought the catfish but once I bought the carp which is a specialty of his along with the catfish.

                                                    I had no problem with the carp when I was there. Perhaps I caught them on a good day?

                                                    There has to be a good use for carp as there are so many of them and they are protein.

                                                    I know that I can look off my deck and see at least 30-50 of them at any one time. I feed the ducks daily and the carp eat the residual chicken scratch that if feed the mallards and wood ducks. The variety or species we have at mile marker 641 on the Tennesse river average about five pounds each with some reaching ten pounds or greater. There has to be a good use for them as there has to be millions of pounds of then in the Tennessee River.

                                                    I know that the Europeans use them for food extensively.

                                                    Paul E. Smith
                                                    Knoxville, TN
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      Oneiron339

                                                      • Total Posts: 2075
                                                      • Joined: 2/13/2002
                                                      • Location: Marietta, GA
                                                      RE: Asian Carp Wed, 08/8/07 7:15 AM (permalink)
                                                      quote:
                                                      Originally posted by pimple2

                                                      How long must we demand that the world dance to our tune and complain when it does not?


                                                      Then why are they all moving HERE?
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        chunbob

                                                        • Total Posts: 7
                                                        • Joined: 10/17/2004
                                                        • Location: Whitefish, MT
                                                        RE: Asian Carp Sat, 08/25/07 8:02 PM (permalink)
                                                        A few things here. I grew up several miles south of Joe Tess' place and carp have always been a staple there. It's the only place I've ever found that could make carp tasty. Those are common carp. The "Asian Carp" are a different species, grass carp. On carp as trash fish, I quote John Gierach, "But by the early 1900s carp began to fall out of favor as a food fish, probably because Americans didn't understand how to raise them commercially. In Europe, carp for eating were kept in clean cool water but here they were farmed in, or caught from, any old hot murky pond and they tasted like it.
                                                        We eventually came to miss the fish the carp had replaced, but although it was our fault the water wasn't clear and clean enough for them anymore, we somehow managed to ignore that. According to Rob Buffler and Tom Dickson in "Fishing For Buffalo," the American prejudice against carp developed as follow: First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them, and then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          Barbilou

                                                          • Total Posts: 1
                                                          • Joined: 8/29/2007
                                                          • Location: Monticello, MN
                                                          RE: Asian Carp Wed, 08/29/07 9:49 PM (permalink)
                                                          I grew up eating carp at Joe Tess's every Friday night. We kids would go down in the basement after we ate and watch the guy grab one out of the tank, bonk it with a mallet, and clean it. We used to pop the air sacs with toothpicks. I still eat there every chance I get.
                                                          But my question is: can I eat clams I find in the Mississippi River? Aside from finding out they're ALL protected and therefore illegal, they're so big I wonder how they'd taste? Most of the ones here are 5 inches across. We dig and eat clams every day in the Sea of Cortez (full-time RVers/Mexico/Kino Bay) and they're only an inch or two. Anyone done it?
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            Sonny Funzio

                                                            • Total Posts: 902
                                                            • Joined: 2/13/2006
                                                            • Location: Detroit, MI
                                                            RE: Asian Carp Thu, 08/30/07 3:42 PM (permalink)
                                                            There seems to be enough recipes for River Clams around ... But as far as safety, I sure would NOT be eating something until I was sure of any advisories in the area.

                                                            Your profile says you're in Minnesota so you might try
                                                            http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/fish/index.html

                                                            also
                                                            http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/fish/
                                                            http://www.foodsafety.gov/~fsg/seafood.html
                                                            and
                                                            http://134.67.99.49/scripts/esrimap.dll?name=Listing&Cmd=Map

                                                            btw: welcome to the forum!
                                                             
                                                            #30
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