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 Raw Eggs

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retired & glad

  • Total Posts: 32
  • Joined: 8/20/2003
  • Location: Mansfield, OH
Raw Eggs Tue, 11/11/03 5:11 AM (permalink)
We always used to have "French Chocolate Silk Pie" as one of the desserts at holiday meals. We love it but we haven't made it for some years now because of the salmonella scare. How do you deal with the problem of recipes calling for raw eggs vs the danger of using them. I have heard there is a way to "pasteurize" eggs; can anybody tell me how to do that and how well the resulting egg product actually works in recipes?

 
#1
    Julia I

    RE: Raw Eggs Tue, 11/11/03 11:37 AM (permalink)
    Here is some information that you might find useful:

    http://whatscookingamerica.net/Q-A/EggPasturization.htm

    Eggs can be cooked gently in a way that keeps them pretty liquid but still kills any bacteria, it just takes a bit of liquid and a bit of time. Think of it as if you were starting to make a custard.

    Personally, I like to live dangerously. With modern egg production, the risk is pretty low anyway. If I want to eat something badly enough that contains raw eggs (ummm, chocolate chip cookie dough!), I eat it.
     
    #2
      scbuzz

      • Total Posts: 844
      • Joined: 3/7/2003
      • Location: Sumter, SC
      RE: Raw Eggs Tue, 11/11/03 1:01 PM (permalink)
      Me too !!! I always throw caution to the wind, and eat whatever !!!


      I mean after all, when it is your time ........ its your time !!! whether your eating something with raw eggs or you're sitting on the ole Lazy-boy sipping a cool one !!!


       
      #3
        Cakes

        • Total Posts: 562
        • Joined: 9/11/2003
        • Location: Sarasota, FL
        RE: Raw Eggs Tue, 11/11/03 3:06 PM (permalink)
        1 in 20,000 eggs are capable of giving you salmonella. If you are processing 10's of thousands of eggs a day then you have to be extremely careful. Having Silk Pie at the holidays is pretty good odds.

        Obviously you have to consider who is going to be eating the raw eggs. Healthy adult people can handle salmonella (not that I want to).

        Jeff Baker
         
        #4
          RubyRose

          • Total Posts: 2187
          • Joined: 5/7/2003
          • Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
          RE: Raw Eggs Tue, 11/11/03 3:54 PM (permalink)
          The exact subject of raw eggs in Chocolate Silk Pie came up at another board and this was listed as an alternative recipe:

          French Silk Pie

          1- 9 inch pie crust
          ΒΌ cup butter softened
          3 ounces unsweetened chocolate
          1 cup sugar
          2 tablespoons cornstarch
          3 eggs
          1 teaspoon vanilla
          1 cup chilled whipping(heavy) cream
          Whipped cream if desired

          Prepare and bake pie shell. Cool. Heat butter and chocolate in 2 quart saucepan over low heat until melted. Remove from heat. Mix sugar and cornstarch; stir into chocolate mixture. Beat eggs in bowl on medium speed until thick and lemon colored. Stir into chocolate mixture. Cook mixture over medium heat 5 minutes, stirring constantly, until thick and glossy. Stir in vanilla. Cool 10 minutes stirring occasionally.

          Beat whipping cream in chilled medium bowl until stiff fold chocolate mixture into whipped cream, pour into pie shell.

          Cover and freeze about 4 hours or until firm. Garnish with whipped cream if desired. Freeze any remaining pie.

          Source: Betty Crockers Best Baking

          I use raw eggs in some salad dressings and in my favorite chocolate mousse recipe, although generally for our immediate family.


           
          #5
            seafarer john

            RE: Raw Eggs Tue, 11/11/03 10:48 PM (permalink)
            I may be living in a fool's paradise, but I thought I learned somewhere that :
            The Vinegar in a salad dressing would kill any salmonella.
            The alcohol in your system after a cocktail will prevent salmonella poisoning.
            The salmonella was on the shell and never in the egg.
            In any case we have never had anything we have identified as salmonella poisoning and we eat some raw or undercooked eggs quite often in dressings and other items. I try to remember to run the eggs under hot water before I crack them believing that kills the salmonella.
             
            #6
              retired & glad

              • Total Posts: 32
              • Joined: 8/20/2003
              • Location: Mansfield, OH
              RE: Raw Eggs Wed, 11/12/03 1:04 AM (permalink)

              Julia 1 You have given me what I was looking for. I knew someone out there was familiar with the process however I also plan to give Ruby Rose's new recipe a try , as well.
              Thanks to all!
               
              #7
                EliseT

                • Total Posts: 2849
                • Joined: 7/11/2001
                • Location: L.A, CA
                RE: Raw Eggs Wed, 11/12/03 5:27 AM (permalink)
                I use "raw" eggs in my tiramisu, mousse and key lime pie. You just have to heat them in a double boiler with some kind of liquid until 165 degrees is reached (use a candy thermometer). I would probably use heavy cream (which doesn't curdle) or chocolate liquer for your pie.
                 
                #8
                  Bushie

                  • Total Posts: 2902
                  • Joined: 4/21/2001
                  • Location: Round Rock, TX
                  RE: Raw Eggs Wed, 11/12/03 11:44 AM (permalink)
                  quote:
                  Originally posted by seafarer john

                  The alcohol in your system after a cocktail will prevent salmonella poisoning.

                  My sentiments exactly. And, I'm happy to report that my body is wonderfully salmonella-free!

                  I don't let the "food nazis" ruin my good time. I use raw eggs all the time in protein shakes, and what would Christmas be without homemade Egg Nog?

                  (I also eat rare steak, I don't cook my hamburgers all the way through, I insist on eating fat-laden Mexican food, and I even eat theater popcorn!! )
                   
                  #9
                    Oneiron339

                    • Total Posts: 2075
                    • Joined: 2/13/2002
                    • Location: Marietta, GA
                    RE: Raw Eggs Wed, 11/12/03 12:44 PM (permalink)
                    Salmonella is an enteric-type disease similar to typhoid and can be severe in the elderly, infants, and those w/ compromised immune systems.
                    Unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current problems are due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                    Most types of Salmonella live in the intestinal tracts of animals and birds and are transmitted to humans by contaminated foods of animal origin. Stringent procedures for cleaning and inspecting eggs were implemented in the 1970s and have made salmonellosis caused by external fecal contamination of egg shells extremely rare. However, unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current epidemic is due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. The reason for this is that Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                    Although most infected hens have been found in the northeastern United States, the infection also occurs in hens in other areas of the country. In the Northeast, approximately one in 10,000 eggs may be internally contaminated. In other parts of the United States, contaminated eggs appear less common. Only a small number of hens seem to be infected at any given time, and an infected hen can lay many normal eggs while only occasionally laying an egg contaminated with the Salmonella bacterium.
                    Govern yourselves accordingly, and perhaps other doctors may expand on the topic.

                     
                    #10
                      Liketoeat

                      • Total Posts: 552
                      • Joined: 5/26/2003
                      • Location: Marvell, AR
                      RE: Raw Eggs Thu, 11/13/03 10:59 AM (permalink)
                      Seafarer and Bushie, I agree with you all completely. If we refused to eat everything which is considered by anyone to be dangerous, we would all be starved to death. Same as with medicines, if we refused to take prescribed medicines because of the possbile reactions listed by the manufacturers, we'd never take a dose of medicine. Particularly loved your "food nazi" comment and examples of foods you do eat and enjoy, Bushie. I've always operated on the basis of the old saying, "you've got to eat a peck of dirt before you die, anyway". Well, guess I've not eaten my peck yet, because I'm still here after all these years.
                       
                      #11
                        Bushie

                        • Total Posts: 2902
                        • Joined: 4/21/2001
                        • Location: Round Rock, TX
                        RE: Raw Eggs Thu, 11/13/03 12:06 PM (permalink)
                        quote:
                        Originally posted by Liketoeat

                        Particularly loved your "food nazi" comment and examples of foods you do eat and enjoy, Bushie...

                        And, they'll probably write on my gravestone, "Looks like the SOB wasn't so smart, afterall."
                         
                        #12
                          Liketoeat

                          • Total Posts: 552
                          • Joined: 5/26/2003
                          • Location: Marvell, AR
                          RE: Raw Eggs Thu, 11/13/03 7:39 PM (permalink)
                          Bushie, wording very similar to your epitaph will also likely be on my tombstone, but at least we will have lived, enjoyed life, and enjoyed what we ate during it.
                           
                          #13
                            EliseT

                            • Total Posts: 2849
                            • Joined: 7/11/2001
                            • Location: L.A, CA
                            RE: Raw Eggs Thu, 11/13/03 8:29 PM (permalink)
                            Are free-range eggs any safer?
                             
                            #14
                              Bushie

                              • Total Posts: 2902
                              • Joined: 4/21/2001
                              • Location: Round Rock, TX
                              RE: Raw Eggs Thu, 11/13/03 11:19 PM (permalink)
                              quote:
                              Originally posted by Liketoeat

                              Bushie, wording very similar to your epitaph will also likely be on my tombstone, but at least we will have lived, enjoyed life, and enjoyed what we ate during it.

                              Ditto!

                              -----------

                              And Elise, according to Oneiron's info, I don't think it would matter. I buy only free-range these days (we are so fortunate in Austin to have these available at many places).

                              I guess I should name my protein shakes "Russian Roulette".
                               
                              #15
                                EliseT

                                • Total Posts: 2849
                                • Joined: 7/11/2001
                                • Location: L.A, CA
                                RE: Raw Eggs Fri, 11/14/03 4:28 AM (permalink)
                                Well, if you get food poisoning you can call them "Russian to the restroom" (Sorry, it's late at night and I just couldn't resist ).
                                 
                                #16
                                  Oneiron339

                                  • Total Posts: 2075
                                  • Joined: 2/13/2002
                                  • Location: Marietta, GA
                                  RE: Raw Eggs Fri, 11/14/03 8:41 AM (permalink)
                                  Actually, food poisoning is probably worse than salmonellosis for most "healthy" people, but that's another topic. You guys worry too much. I still eat runny scrambled or fried eggs, still eat the cookie dough and lick the spoon after mixing a cake. All of us have far more to worry every day when we get in the car and drive somewhere. The egg question is like the meat question - if you take reasonable care in how you prepare things, you'll be OK.
                                   
                                  #17
                                    Mayhaw Man

                                    • Total Posts: 589
                                    • Joined: 7/5/2003
                                    • Location: Abita Springs, LA
                                    RE: Raw Eggs Fri, 11/14/03 9:04 AM (permalink)
                                    I am lucky enough to get heart stopping, cholestorol raising amounts of brown farm eggs from my neighbor. So far they haven't killed me and they sure are good. The yolks are a deep orange and they are great eggs.

                                    As far as the raw part goes, I regularly dump a raw egg in cooked pasta along with fine chopped veg and tasso. I agreat quick meal along with some crunchy "Zip" brand French Bread.
                                     
                                    #18
                                      Sundancer7

                                      RE: Raw Eggs Fri, 11/14/03 6:00 PM (permalink)
                                      I have felt uncomfortable responding to this due to so many peop0le enjoying the addition of raw eggs to recipes but I feel responsible to advise against doing that.

                                      It is a crap shoot and you are putting your family up to risk due to your desires.

                                      You can make them extremely sick. No doubt that the odds are with you but why take the risk?

                                      Please look at the Google site regarding "Egg Salmonella" and you will see that the odds are against you.

                                      Paul E. Smith
                                      Knoxville, TN
                                       
                                      #19
                                        hermitt4d

                                        • Total Posts: 367
                                        • Joined: 8/4/2003
                                        • Location: Houston, TX
                                        RE: Raw Eggs Sun, 11/16/03 1:10 AM (permalink)
                                        quote:
                                        Originally posted by retired & glad

                                        We always used to have "French Chocolate Silk Pie" as one of the desserts at holiday meals. We love it but we haven't made it for some years now because of the salmonella scare. How do you deal with the problem of recipes calling for raw eggs vs the danger of using them. I have heard there is a way to "pasteurize" eggs; can anybody tell me how to do that and how well the resulting egg product actually works in recipes?




                                        I read about these a couple of years ago and they were supposed to be available at a local supermarket chain, but it's one I never shop at so I never checked them out. Here's a link to a company, with a list of retailers: http://www.davidsonseggs.com/.

                                        Just try googling on 'pasteurized eggs' and you'll get a lot of hits to check out .

                                        I wonder how they taste.
                                         
                                        #20
                                          emsmom

                                          • Total Posts: 955
                                          • Joined: 3/23/2004
                                          • Location: Gastonia, NC
                                          RE: Raw Eggs Fri, 03/26/04 11:43 AM (permalink)
                                          When my daughter was small, she had salmonella and the pediatrician
                                          decided that she probably got it from licking the spoon after I had
                                          finished with my cake batter.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            twodales

                                            • Total Posts: 205
                                            • Joined: 3/14/2004
                                            • Location: Chicago, IL
                                            RE: Raw Eggs Wed, 03/31/04 10:42 PM (permalink)
                                            Our local Dominick's food store and Trader Joe's here in Chicago sell pasteurised eggs. I used them on Christmas Cake (fruitcake & Royal Icing)as wwell as in Chiffon pies though I'm not overly concerned about the whole salmonella thing. I don't want to sicken guests though.

                                            Heck, growing up my Mom would through a raw egg in my milkshake!

                                            I think that years ago, animals were raised in a more natural way. It does concern me when animals are fed to other non-meat eating animals. Don't seem right....
                                             
                                            #22
                                              martipr

                                              • Total Posts: 7
                                              • Joined: 5/22/2006
                                              • Location: Haltom City, TX
                                              RE: Raw Eggs Wed, 09/6/06 8:51 PM (permalink)
                                              quote:
                                              Originally posted by Oneiron339

                                              Salmonella is an enteric-type disease similar to typhoid and can be severe in the elderly, infants, and those w/ compromised immune systems.
                                              Unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current problems are due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                                              Most types of Salmonella live in the intestinal tracts of animals and birds and are transmitted to humans by contaminated foods of animal origin. Stringent procedures for cleaning and inspecting eggs were implemented in the 1970s and have made salmonellosis caused by external fecal contamination of egg shells extremely rare. However, unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current epidemic is due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. The reason for this is that Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                                              Although most infected hens have been found in the northeastern United States, the infection also occurs in hens in other areas of the country. In the Northeast, approximately one in 10,000 eggs may be internally contaminated. In other parts of the United States, contaminated eggs appear less common. Only a small number of hens seem to be infected at any given time, and an infected hen can lay many normal eggs while only occasionally laying an egg contaminated with the Salmonella bacterium.
                                              Govern yourselves accordingly, and perhaps other doctors may expand on the topic.


                                              I would hardly consider 1 in 10,000 to be a "current epidimic".
                                               
                                              #23
                                                roossy90

                                                • Total Posts: 6695
                                                • Joined: 8/15/2005
                                                • Location: columbus, oh
                                                RE: Raw Eggs Sat, 09/9/06 3:38 AM (permalink)
                                                quote:
                                                Originally posted by martipr

                                                quote:
                                                Originally posted by Oneiron339

                                                Salmonella is an enteric-type disease similar to typhoid and can be severe in the elderly, infants, and those w/ compromised immune systems.
                                                Unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current problems are due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                                                Most types of Salmonella live in the intestinal tracts of animals and birds and are transmitted to humans by contaminated foods of animal origin. Stringent procedures for cleaning and inspecting eggs were implemented in the 1970s and have made salmonellosis caused by external fecal contamination of egg shells extremely rare. However, unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current epidemic is due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. The reason for this is that Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                                                Although most infected hens have been found in the northeastern United States, the infection also occurs in hens in other areas of the country. In the Northeast, approximately one in 10,000 eggs may be internally contaminated. In other parts of the United States, contaminated eggs appear less common. Only a small number of hens seem to be infected at any given time, and an infected hen can lay many normal eggs while only occasionally laying an egg contaminated with the Salmonella bacterium.
                                                Govern yourselves accordingly, and perhaps other doctors may expand on the topic.


                                                I would hardly consider 1 in 10,000 to be a "current epidimic".

                                                This thread is 2 years old..
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  Jimeats

                                                  • Total Posts: 3175
                                                  • Joined: 8/15/2005
                                                  • Location: Ipswich Ma
                                                  RE: Raw Eggs Sat, 09/9/06 8:09 AM (permalink)
                                                  This thread is 2 years old! So what's the problem.
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    MikeS.

                                                    • Total Posts: 5360
                                                    • Joined: 7/1/2003
                                                    • Location: FarEasternPanhandle, WV
                                                    • Roadfood Insider
                                                    RE: Raw Eggs Sun, 09/17/06 11:52 PM (permalink)
                                                    A lot of new people like to go way back on the posts and when they find something that tickles their fancy they will post and resurect the thread.

                                                    So what?

                                                    When I find something really inane I'll delete it.

                                                    MikeS.
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      Scorereader

                                                      • Total Posts: 5546
                                                      • Joined: 8/4/2005
                                                      • Location: Crofton, MD
                                                      RE: Raw Eggs Mon, 09/18/06 11:21 AM (permalink)
                                                      quote:
                                                      Originally posted by martipr

                                                      quote:
                                                      Originally posted by Oneiron339

                                                      Salmonella is an enteric-type disease similar to typhoid and can be severe in the elderly, infants, and those w/ compromised immune systems.
                                                      Unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current problems are due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                                                      Most types of Salmonella live in the intestinal tracts of animals and birds and are transmitted to humans by contaminated foods of animal origin. Stringent procedures for cleaning and inspecting eggs were implemented in the 1970s and have made salmonellosis caused by external fecal contamination of egg shells extremely rare. However, unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current epidemic is due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. The reason for this is that Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed.

                                                      Although most infected hens have been found in the northeastern United States, the infection also occurs in hens in other areas of the country. In the Northeast, approximately one in 10,000 eggs may be internally contaminated. In other parts of the United States, contaminated eggs appear less common. Only a small number of hens seem to be infected at any given time, and an infected hen can lay many normal eggs while only occasionally laying an egg contaminated with the Salmonella bacterium.
                                                      Govern yourselves accordingly, and perhaps other doctors may expand on the topic.


                                                      I would hardly consider 1 in 10,000 to be a "current epidimic".


                                                      not only that, that figure is for eggs in the Northeast. In the US as a whole in 1 in 30,000 eggs are infected.
                                                      The normal healthy person will have some cramping and loose stool for about 2 days, beginning 12-24 hours after infection.
                                                      So, the risk is pretty nominal.
                                                      Still, you can buy pasteurized eggs at the supermarket for those recipes that require a raw egg, but you're not willing to use the raw egg. It's a little more expensive, but, you nly need to use the pasturized stuff for raw egg recipes.
                                                       
                                                      #27
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