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 Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage

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Dr of BBQ

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Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 10:20 AM ( #1 )

Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage At Jewish Eatery

Restaurant Owner Brandished Electric Knife To Fend Off Enraged Customers NEW YORK (CBS) ―

It was an all-out frankfurter frenzy this week at a popular Jewish restaurant in Brooklyn, as a certain hot dog caused a near-riot. It's not what you would expect: a worker in a NYC eatery caught on tape fending off a group of Jewish patrons with an electric knife.

"I was petrified – stuff was going through my mind," a patron who didn't want his name used said. "I want to live. I don't want to get stabbed for a hot dog."


The long-time patron says the chaos broke out when he and a rabbi noticed the frankfurters on the grill were non-Kosher, in a restaurant that's supposed to be dishing out the Kosher variety.


"The package didn't look Kosher," the patron said. "It was the last piece in the package." Some customers were quick to defend the worker, who was surrounded by, according to some witnesses, a hundred enraged people.



"He just got angry," the patron said. "He wasn't about to do anything to the guys." The rabbi, who originally certified the Shawarma King restaurant Kosher, has written a letter to the community in a Jewish newspaper.


In the letter, he calls the frankfurter mix-up a "terrible mistake." "It was a one-time incident," Borough Park resident Yosi Stern, who translated the Yiddish letter for CBS 2, said. "They caught it before it was even served to the consumers."


The rabbi tells the community that a worker was sent out to buy hot dogs, and that he went to the wrong market and bought non-Kosher hot dogs.


Neighbors say the owner is an honest man. "He's a very religious man," one neighbor says. "He studies every morning, and he's not the type of guy to fool people."


The popular spot on 13th Avenue was shut down for several days as rabbis examined the premises for non-Kosher food, and threw out equipment that came in contact with the uncertified meat.


Customers, and the restaurant's owner, say they're hoping similar incidents don't come up in the future. The restaurant's owner says that, in addition to throwing out equipment, utensils were cleansed with a flame to purge any pieces of the non-Kosher food.

PopsDogHouse

Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 10:44 AM ( #2 )
I have to agree with the one patron that said "I don't want to get stabbed for a hot dog"..LOL.  I don't want to get stabbed for any reason, but especially over a hot dog.

I don't imagine it will happen again.  Especially when you consider they had to throw away equipment and cleanse with fire.
brittneal

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 11:01 AM ( #3 )
I worked for a Morraccan in denver for a short time.  He had a poplular lunch spot out in Golden and decided to expand a bit.  He bought out the kitchen in a gotel on E Colfax.  The first thing he did was throw away all equiptment, pots pans and whatever!   he replaced it with only new stuff.  he learned his lesson during his first event.  the Denver STock Show.  The hotel was overflowing with guests.  Imaginge them going in for breakfast and paying a fairly high price for a breakfast with no pork.  It was almost a riot!  I tried to explain to hime that he couldnt dictate detary restrictions to a bunch of cowboys.  His take was being the seller of pork was even worse than the offense of eating it onself!
JayL

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 11:15 AM ( #4 )
That Moraccan was probably Muslim.  If he was so against pork, was he sure that all his meat was halal?
Dr of BBQ

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 11:45 AM ( #5 )

I served a Kosher dog for awhile but I have no knowledge about Kosher rules for prep, or serving. I wonder if a Kosher Dog is still Kosher if prepared in other than a Kosher manor? And what would be the proper manor for serving a Kosher product?

Jack

PopsDogHouse

Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 11:58 AM ( #6 )
Dr of BBQ



I served a Kosher dog for awhile but I have no knowledge about Kosher rules for prep, or serving. I wonder if a Kosher Dog is still Kosher if prepared in other than a Kosher manor? And what would be the proper manor for serving a Kosher product?

Jack



I am not Jewish, but here is my understanding from study.  Your Kosher dog is fine.  It doesn't lose its Pareve label.  HOWEVER, it cannot come into contact with any meat that is non Kosher, or any equipment used to prepare and/or serve non Kosher meat.  Buns do not have to be Kosher.  Pork is a huge no no.  This is one reason I don't serve a Kosher dog.  What good does it do since  I also cook and serve pork.  This is true for Jew or Muslim.  A true Orthadox Jew will not even eat in your home if it contains pork.
Curbside Grill

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 12:01 PM ( #7 )
Dr of BBQ



I served a Kosher dog for awhile but I have no knowledge about Kosher rules for prep, or serving. I wonder if a Kosher Dog is still Kosher if prepared in other than a Kosher manor? And what would be the proper manor for serving a Kosher product?

Jack



Kosher is how meat prepped and packaged  for sale. Kitchen rules are different also. Believe dogs and sausage front part of animal only. I can offer Kosher made product, but cannot claim Kosher place. Hauled years ago Kosher products  meat and wine, I like working with Kosher stuff. Maybe in the back of the head thought cleaner process, man do they pay for the rabbi at every step.  That is why the products are higher. Products have there Kosher and passover marks on product labels.
 
 
Twinwillow

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 12:10 PM ( #8 )
Hey, I can understand his rage. Although I am Jewish, I do not keep a Kosher house. We never did.
When I was 16, (summer of 1956) I worked up in the Catskills as a busboy in the (Kosher) restaurant of a well known hotel. After dinner service one night, I went to the kitchen to make myself a brisket sandwich. Big mistake! Because, as I was pouring a glass of milk to drink with my sandwich (as I always did growing up). The owner of the hotel happened to come onto the kitchen. When he saw me drinking milk with my brisket sandwich, he picked me up bodily and, yelling and screaming, he threw me off the premises. I had to call out to one of the guys also working there to pack my suitcase and bring it to me outside the hotel.

So there I was, in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night with my suitcase.

PopsDogHouse

Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 12:15 PM ( #9 )
Interesting Article:

Turning to kosher cuts

As various health scares raise fears about the food supply, more consumers are viewing the strictly prepared meats as a safer alternative.
Americans are snapping up kosher food products across the country, prompted by health concerns and a belief that kosher meats and poultry — prepared under strict Jewish dietary laws — are a safer choice amid fears of mad cow disease and bacterial contamination.
Kosher laws are stricter than U.S. Department of Agriculture standards when it comes to the health of animals that can be eaten. They prohibit, for example, using cows with broken bones or animals that are visibly sick. The laws strictly dictate how the animals are fed, killed and processed.
Harry Geedey, marketing vice president for Empire Kosher Poultry Inc., the nation’s largest kosher poultry producer, said the religious requirements “add another level of safety” to the meat supply. After USDA inspectors at Empire’s Pennsylvania plant finish their work, rabbis “trained in veterinary science” and kosher law perform additional inspections, rejecting “about three times more than what the USDA does,” Geedey said.
The number of health-conscious consumers who seek out kosher products has been steadily rising. The market has received an extra boost from several food scares, including beef contaminated with deadly E. coli bacteria and December’s discovery of a cow in Washington state infected with bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease, food industry executives and local butchers say.
Manes Wiezel, the founder of Los Angeles-based City Glatt Inc., a wholesale distributor of “glatt kosher” meats (processed at the strictest level of kosher), has noticed a steady and significant increase in sales. Because the U.S. Jewish population is holding steady, he and others in the kosher industry attribute the extra demand to buyers who are not motivated by religion but by health and food safety concerns.
Among local butchers, Herschel Berengut, the owner of G&K Kosher Meat Market in Los Angeles, said non-Jewish Filipinos and African Americans recently became first-time customers after seeking confirmation that kosher meat is more rigorously inspected than regular meat.
Like organic meat and poultry, kosher meats and poultry are hormone-free.
Joseph Azizi, a co-owner of Santa Monica Kosher Market in West Los Angeles, said the meat scare had brought new Latino and Japanese customers from the surrounding neighborhood. He said sales had risen about 30% recently, noting that the regional supermarket labor strike, which has sent some people in search of new places to shop, was another possible factor in the upswing in business.
After reports of mad cow disease in Washington, Azizi hoisted a yellow and red banner above the storefront that reads: “Don’t Get ‘Mad’ Get Kosher / Kosher Meat Is Safe.” That sign reassured some existing customers and brought in non-Jewish customers along with non-kosher Jews.
Because kosher dietary laws prohibit the mixing of meat and milk products, kosher food labeling is particularly rigorous. Foods are categorized as meat, dairy or pareve — a neutral category containing neither meat nor dairy. The meticulous labeling has helped drive a steady 15% annual growth in the U.S. market for kosher products, according to market research firms that monitor the kosher food industry. Among the buyers: vegetarians who know that certified products don’t contain hidden meat products; people with lactose intolerance who must avoid hidden milk products; Muslims, Hindus and Seventh-day Adventists whose dietary prohibitions overlap with kosher laws; and the growing group of Americans choosing kosher foods as a more healthful alternative.
National supermarket chains, which sell roughly three-fourths of the nation’s kosher products, are increasing their kosher offerings to meet this growing demand.
Menachem Lubinsky, editor of Kosher Today, a New York-based newsletter, said the number of certified kosher products had soared from 16,000 in 1977 to 80,000 today, including such well-known food items as Oreo cookies. He said about a third of all supermarket items were certified kosher. In 2003, kosher foods comprised about $170 billion of the $500 billion in U.S. food sales.
“Our non-Jewish customers are seeing the health benefits,” said Terry O’Neil, a spokesman for Ralphs Grocery Co. in Compton, which has kosher butchers in eight of its stores, with plans to add more. “As we’ve expanded the departments to a lot of new stores, we’ve seen an increase in the cross-section of our customers purchasing kosher.”
Rabbi Eliezer Eidlitz, director of the Kosher Information Bureau in North Hollywood, has noticed the change among people who sign up for supermarket tours that his organization sponsors. The tour groups, which used to cater almost exclusively to Orthodox Jews, now include a lot of people who are not Jewish.
Strict dietary laws govern certification
To be certified kosher, animals must be raised, killed and processed according to strict Jewish dietary law. Symbols of kosher certification include the letter K, often in combination with other symbols, or a U surrounded by a circle. The word “pareve” on a label means that the food contains neither meat nor dairy products.
Kosher poultry cannot show any signs of being pecked, sick or injured. The birds are killed with a slit to the neck, allowing the blood to drain out. They’re never plunged into hot water (a theoretical source of bacterial contamination), but are washed in cold water before being soaked, salted and washed again. Experts in the koshering process say the extensive use of salt helps kill bacteria.
To be kosher, cows must be younger than 30 months. Dairy cows are never used. Kosher laws preclude using a stun gun or a bullet to the brain, which could scatter brain and nerve tissue (a source of mad cow disease). The animal must be hand-slaughtered by slitting its neck. Religious inspectors look for signs of broken bones, disease or scarred or punctured organs, which disqualify the animal. Downer cattle are never used, and about only 40% of healthy cattle qualify as kosher. Meat can be taken from only the forequarters; it is then soaked and salted to draw out the blood.
origin:  http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-he-kosher2feb02,1,3182801.story?coll=la-health-medicine
ptireland

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 12:18 PM ( #10 )
PopsDogHouse


Dr of BBQ



I served a Kosher dog for awhile but I have no knowledge about Kosher rules for prep, or serving. I wonder if a Kosher Dog is still Kosher if prepared in other than a Kosher manor? And what would be the proper manor for serving a Kosher product?

Jack



I am not Jewish, but here is my understanding from study.  Your Kosher dog is fine.  It doesn't lose its Pareve label.  HOWEVER, it cannot come into contact with any meat that is non Kosher, or any equipment used to prepare and/or serve non Kosher meat.  Buns do not have to be Kosher.  Pork is a huge no no.  This is one reason I don't serve a Kosher dog.  What good does it do since  I also cook and serve pork.  This is true for Jew or Muslim.  A true Orthadox Jew will not even eat in your home if it contains pork.




Wow, I figured I'd sell Kosher dogs, but also sell brats, spicy polish dogs, and Italian sausage peppers.  I'm pretty sure some of that isn't Kosher.  If I make the dogs on one side of the grill and they never touch the other stuff, am I still making Kosher dogs?
PopsDogHouse

Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 12:22 PM ( #11 )
ptireland


PopsDogHouse


Dr of BBQ



I served a Kosher dog for awhile but I have no knowledge about Kosher rules for prep, or serving. I wonder if a Kosher Dog is still Kosher if prepared in other than a Kosher manor? And what would be the proper manor for serving a Kosher product?

Jack



I am not Jewish, but here is my understanding from study.  Your Kosher dog is fine.  It doesn't lose its Pareve label.  HOWEVER, it cannot come into contact with any meat that is non Kosher, or any equipment used to prepare and/or serve non Kosher meat.  Buns do not have to be Kosher.  Pork is a huge no no.  This is one reason I don't serve a Kosher dog.  What good does it do since  I also cook and serve pork.  This is true for Jew or Muslim.  A true Orthadox Jew will not even eat in your home if it contains pork.




Wow, I figured I'd sell Kosher dogs, but also sell brats, spicy polish dogs, and Italian sausage peppers.  I'm pretty sure some of that isn't Kosher.  If I make the dogs on one side of the grill and they never touch the other stuff, am I still making Kosher dogs?

 
ptireland,
 
Your dogs will still be Kosher, but people who eat Kosher foods for religious reasons will not eat them because of how they are prepared and served.  You are using your grill to prepare non kosher meat.  They would run anyway due to the pork.


ptireland

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 12:43 PM ( #12 )
But what if I don't use that part of the grill for pork?  The grill is pretty big.  If I cook all the Kosher stuff on the far left, and the non-Kosher stuff on the far right, would that be good enough for them to still buy from me? 

Maybe they have Kosher versions of brats, and Italian sausages.  I have never heard of beef brats or beef Italian sausages though.



PopsDogHouse

Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 12:49 PM ( #13 )
ptireland


But what if I don't use that part of the grill for pork?  The grill is pretty big.  If I cook all the Kosher stuff on the far left, and the non-Kosher stuff on the far right, would that be good enough for them to still buy from me? 

Maybe they have Kosher versions of brats, and Italian sausages.  I have never heard of beef brats or beef Italian sausages though.

I don't know about finding Kosher all beef brats and Italian sausage.  I've never searched. I believe Fontanini has an all beef, but it's not Kosher.   However, cooking pork or any other non Kosher meat on the same grill as Kosher meat won't fly with those who follow for religious reasons.  Better carry an electric knife.

<message edited by PopsDogHouse on Mon, 03/23/09 12:52 PM>
Dr of BBQ

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 1:14 PM ( #14 )
Better carry an electric knife.

Now that's funny!

From what I read above not only the grill would be wrong but all so the tongs and or any other equipment.

I'm still laughing.
PopsDogHouse

Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 1:39 PM ( #15 )
Dr of BBQ


From what I read above not only the grill would be wrong but all so the tongs and or any other equipment.


 
Yes. That is my understanding.  Seems to me that if you want to serve a Kosher dog because it is a quality product that your customers think tastes great, and they are willing to pay for it, go for it.  IMO, running a Kosher hot dog cart would have limited benefits.  Now, if I were in a Jewish community, or had a huge Jewish population, I would certainly entertain the idea. When in Rome, wear a Toga.


Methais

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 1:54 PM ( #16 )

The restaurant's owner says that, in addition to throwing out equipment, utensils were cleansed with a flame to purge any pieces of the non-Kosher food.



Twinwillow

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 2:01 PM ( #17 )
PopsDogHouse


Dr of BBQ


From what I read above not only the grill would be wrong but all so the tongs and or any other equipment.


 
Yes. That is my understanding.  Seems to me that if you want to serve a Kosher dog because it is a quality product that your customers think tastes great, and they are willing to pay for it, go for it.  IMO, running a Kosher hot dog cart would have limited benefits.  Now, if I were in a Jewish community, or had a huge Jewish population, I would certainly entertain the idea. When in Rome, wear a Toga.


And, when in Tel Aviv, wear a yarmulka! 
ptireland

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 2:35 PM ( #18 )
I can still say the dogs are Kosher.
Curbside Grill

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 2:40 PM ( #19 )
Yes you have kosher dogs.
You  CANNOT say Kosher Kitchen.
ALot of people buy Kosher products but do not keep kosher kitchen.
CajunKing

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 7:34 PM ( #20 )
Jack

Not only the grill and tongs, but ANYTHING that has touched non kosher & dairy would be gone.

I worked in a jewish deli while in school (talk about a learning experience for a kid raised catholic/baptist)

There were very strict guidlines as what could and could not be done, and basically 2 sets of EVERYTHING!

Cutting boards - 2  NO WOOD (not Kasherable) plastic ok, until it gets scratches then you'll need new ones
Utencils - 2 sets & no wood allowed (wood is not kasherable)
Kitchen Towels - 2 sets and went into different "dirty" containers
Meat and Dairy - Cooked at seperate times and NEVER together
Sinks - Stainless Steel only porcelain is not Kasherable
Dish washer - forget it you'll need 2 one for meat and one for dairy
Microwave - forget it once used for both can NEVER be Kashered

Rabbi on call just in case you forget something

Oh and

NO GRAPES - so you can't sell grape soda!!

Like i said it was a learning experience
<message edited by CajunKing on Mon, 03/23/09 7:35 PM>
mar52

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 9:28 PM ( #21 )
No grapes?  That one I never heard of.  Wonder why.
PopsDogHouse

Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 10:25 PM ( #22 )
mar52


No grapes?  That one I never heard of.  Wonder why.


I would be interested in knowing as well.  Jews drink wine or grape juice during Passover, at weddings and circumcisions, and other occasions.
CajunKing

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 10:46 PM ( #23 )

 

The restrictions on grape products derive from the laws against using products of idolatry.
 
Wine was commonly used in the rituals of all ancient religions, and wine was routinely sanctified for pagan purposes while it was being processed. For this reason, use of wines and other grape products made by non-Jews was prohibited.
 
(Whole grapes are not a problem, nor are whole grapes in fruit cocktail).
For the most part, this rule only affects wine and grape juice.
 
This becomes a concern with many fruit drinks or fruit-flavored drinks, which are often sweetened with grape juice.
 
You may also notice that it is virtually impossible to find kosher baking powder, because baking powder is made with cream of tartar, a by-product of wine making.

Wine is the only liquid that has it's own blesssing
"Blessed is God_who has created the fruit of the vine."

Wine is often drank for the sabbath meal (friday eve & Sat lunch)
and during the passover Seder and several other times during the year, each with its own blessing of the wine or wine and food.
<message edited by CajunKing on Mon, 03/23/09 10:48 PM>
smokestack lightning

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 10:55 PM ( #24 )
Interesting discussion. For those of you who might find yourself in savannah at some point. Check out Tanners on Broughton. True roadfood. Old time Georgia hot dog place bought by a guy from Chicago who started also selling Vienna beef products. So you can get a Vienna hotdog or Italian beef or Polish from one grill or a small red pork based hot dog ( frequently deep fried at the customer's requests) at another. The staff is sometimes confused as a result. Took me a while to explain that I didnt want my Italian beef with cheese or fried or....

The Vienna products are kosher when shipped  but of course the preparation makes them not acceptable to those following traditional kosher dietary rules. By the way, the owner of tanners also owned Clarys before selling the two retaurants to an employee and they are very good roadfood breakfast choices.

Dr of BBQ

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Mon, 03/23/09 11:52 PM ( #25 )
Cajun King,
Very impressive for a Baptist/Catholic to end up with such knowledge about Jewish Traditions.

You must have paid a lot of attention while working at this place. How long did you work there? How old were you and did you like it?

I can’t imagine the kids I see working at McDonald’s keeping all this straight, especially when they can screw up a burger order in a heartbeat.
brittneal

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Tue, 03/24/09 2:22 AM ( #26 )
JayL, The Morroccan i worked for was hard core orthodox muslim.  He even stopped all wor durrring prayer time.   did fairly well with him.  I had a smattering of orthodox jewish cooking as a kid.  My Grandmother who was a Geram immagrant owned a catering bussines in Chicago fprm the 30's til the 60's.  It speaks a lot for her that her clientell was prodominatly Jewish.  Especially during the war.
I used to argue with muslim that i worked with.  He was so strict on everything but was absolutley unfaithful to his american wife.  He told me that sex had nothing to do with religion.
JudgeMaven

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Tue, 03/24/09 1:55 PM ( #27 )
ptireland


But what if I don't use that part of the grill for pork?  The grill is pretty big.  If I cook all the Kosher stuff on the far left, and the non-Kosher stuff on the far right, would that be good enough for them to still buy from me? 

Maybe they have Kosher versions of brats, and Italian sausages.  I have never heard of beef brats or beef Italian sausages though.


Ptireland, I would not purchase a hot dog from your cart, but this does not mean that others will not.
 
PopsDogHouse: A hot dog isn't pareve unless it is a tofu dog. If a hot dog touches a non-kosher bun the dog technically becomes non-kosher...it isn't just only for touching non-kosher meat and utensils. And if you accidentaly drop a hot dog into a container of ice cream, both the hot dog and ice cream are unable to be consumed according to Jewish law.
 
CajunKing: You're good!
 
Twinwillow: Tel-Aviv is a (primarily) secular city. More yarmulka wearers here in Jerusalem.
 
If an event happened in a Jerusalem restaurant like the one mentioned in the article, the restaurant's kashrut certificates would be stripped and probably would be out of business due to lack of clientel (unless the propieter can bribe the Rabbinate to reinstate/keep the certificates...)
 
And while this fact is off-topic, there are no kosher-certified McDonalds in Jerusalem, though all the food served there individually is kosher.
<message edited by JudgeMaven on Tue, 03/24/09 2:06 PM>
chicagostyledog

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Tue, 03/24/09 2:00 PM ( #28 )
smokestack lightning

The Vienna products are kosher when shipped  but of course the preparation makes them not acceptable to those following traditional kosher dietary rules.


Vienna Beef products are not kosher with the exception of their kosher dill pickles. For information visit:

www.viennabeef.com
Go to: About Us
Go to: Frequently Asked Questions
Go to: Questions # 6 & 7

CSD PhD Professor of Hot Dogs


CajunKing

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Tue, 03/24/09 2:26 PM ( #29 )
Jack,

Bobe Schoenfeld was like an Israeli Drill Instructor, you learned things quickly and correctly..... OR ELSE! 
I was there a little over 1 year, during that time I was never hungry.
ptireland

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Re:Non-Kosher Hot Dog Incites Rage - Tue, 03/24/09 3:24 PM ( #30 )
I thought Vienna Beef and Sabretts were Kosher.  They're the top 2 dog companies in America.  It's disappointing to find out that neither of them are. 

The very best dogs I've ever tasted were Bests Kosher dogs, and they went out of business....which SUCKS.
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