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 Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build

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DWags541

  • Total Posts: 174
  • Joined: 2/25/2012
  • Location: Eugene, OR
Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Mon, 02/27/12 3:20 AM (permalink)
I sent a text to him but he has yet to reply. I'll post when I get it.
 
Inkys


Dwag541,
I'd love to know where your friend got a propane espresso machine.
Thanks


 
#31
    DWags541

    • Total Posts: 174
    • Joined: 2/25/2012
    • Location: Eugene, OR
    Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Mon, 02/27/12 3:23 AM (permalink)
    Inkys


    I think the propane tank is 100lbs. I've been wondering how long that would last. How much does say a 30" flat grill and a 24" broiler use in 8hrs? (on average)

     
    We use 1/3 to 2/3 of a 36" griddle and a 15# fryer on my cart. We go through a 30# tank about once a week. Lots of variables in there. So don't know if that would help.
     
    #32
      Inkys

      • Total Posts: 64
      • Joined: 10/30/2011
      • Location: Sacramento, CA
      Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Mon, 02/27/12 8:28 AM (permalink)
      Did a little research on batteries. Here's a great site for info on deep cycles
      http://www.windsun.com/Ba...ep%20cycle%20batteries
       
      It looks like it's more efficient to run EVERYTHING on batteries. True deep cycles (industrial or PV types) should be able to put out 10+amps all day long. And recharge (even after figuring for inefficiency of batteries and inverters) should be under $2/day per battery. 2 of these should be able to supply two 15amp circuits (3000 watts) all day for about $3, whereas a 4000w generator might use 4-5 gallons of gas (or more) ... about $18. That's $66/mo electrical bill versus almost $400/mo gas. A bank of 4 deep cycles will cost $1000 and life span should be 3-5 years, possibly more.
      This looks like we should all dump our gennies and run everything off batteries, and they're clean and quiet .... am I missing something here?
       
      #33
        Inkys

        • Total Posts: 64
        • Joined: 10/30/2011
        • Location: Sacramento, CA
        Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Mon, 02/27/12 8:33 AM (permalink)
        DWags541

        We use 1/3 to 2/3 of a 36" griddle and a 15# fryer on my cart. We go through a 30# tank about once a week. Lots of variables in there. So don't know if that would help.

        That helps a lot. I can triple that use and a 100# tank should last a week. Don't know that I will use that much, I just want enough that I don't have to fill up mid week. I saw a truck with 2 100# tanks and started wondering about capacity. Your numbers make sense to me from my limited propane experience with my bbq :-)
         
        #34
          Inkys

          • Total Posts: 64
          • Joined: 10/30/2011
          • Location: Sacramento, CA
          Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Mon, 02/27/12 8:36 AM (permalink)
          I'm going to pull the lift at least for my initial dmv weighing. I want a lower empty weight.  I'm having trouble figuring out what it weighs (and how much help I'll need). Web sites always list the lifting weight not the actual weight. Anyone have any idea on this or know where I can get better info?
           
          #35
            chefbuba

            • Total Posts: 1956
            • Joined: 6/22/2009
            • Location: Near You, WA
            Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Mon, 02/27/12 11:19 AM (permalink)
            Inkys


            DWags541

            We use 1/3 to 2/3 of a 36" griddle and a 15# fryer on my cart. We go through a 30# tank about once a week. Lots of variables in there. So don't know if that would help.

            That helps a lot. I can triple that use and a 100# tank should last a week. Don't know that I will use that much, I just want enough that I don't have to fill up mid week. I saw a truck with 2 100# tanks and started wondering about capacity. Your numbers make sense to me from my limited propane experience with my bbq :-)

            What are you going to be running?  I have a char broiler, grill & fryer running 6 hrs a day, six days. I have a 50 gal tank on the ground, it's usually around 40% when it gets filled....30-35gal.
             
            #36
              edwmax

              • Total Posts: 2016
              • Joined: 1/1/2007
              • Location: Cairo, GA
              Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Mon, 02/27/12 1:20 PM (permalink)
              Inkys


              Did a little research on batteries. Here's a great site for info on deep cycles
              http://www.windsun.com/Ba...ep%20cycle%20batteries

              It looks like it's more efficient to run EVERYTHING on batteries. True deep cycles (industrial or PV types) should be able to put out 10+amps all day long. And recharge (even after figuring for inefficiency of batteries and inverters) should be under $2/day per battery. 2 of these should be able to supply two 15amp circuits (3000 watts) all day for about $3, whereas a 4000w generator might use 4-5 gallons of gas (or more) ... about $18. That's $66/mo electrical bill versus almost $400/mo gas. A bank of 4 deep cycles will cost $1000 and life span should be 3-5 years, possibly more.
              This looks like we should all dump our gennies and run everything off batteries, and they're clean and quiet .... am I missing something here?

               
              that depends much on the amp-hour rating of the battery (???).    ... So your saying that 10 amps X 12 volts = 1200 watts power per hour    ... X's 2 batteries = 2400 watts power per hour is all you need as maximum power draw  ...???...  Due to heat loss and wiring ineffectiveness;  I wouldn't count on getting more than 80% usable power, ie 960 watts per battery or 1920 watts for 2 batteries.
              <message edited by edwmax on Mon, 02/27/12 1:22 PM>
               
              #37
                DWags541

                • Total Posts: 174
                • Joined: 2/25/2012
                • Location: Eugene, OR
                Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 1:19 AM (permalink)
                One last observation of mine I thought I'd mention is that I have thought about upgrading to larger tanks, perhaps to remove the clutter of more than one smaller one. However, larger tanks = more weight. But more than that, if you are wanting one tank to do all your work, I worry about running out. Instead of lugging around a 40# tank, I am happy to carry two 30#s so in the event I drain one, I have a backup. Even 2 20# tanks would give me more confidence then solely relying on one.
                This is I guess my dilemma with having only 1 tank on my truck. And I suppose that the ideal is just to "top it off" frequently and know your average consumption rate and not take chances. Or if you are going to an multi-day event, have a backup around.
                 
                chefbuba


                Inkys


                DWags541

                We use 1/3 to 2/3 of a 36" griddle and a 15# fryer on my cart. We go through a 30# tank about once a week. Lots of variables in there. So don't know if that would help.

                That helps a lot. I can triple that use and a 100# tank should last a week. Don't know that I will use that much, I just want enough that I don't have to fill up mid week. I saw a truck with 2 100# tanks and started wondering about capacity. Your numbers make sense to me from my limited propane experience with my bbq :-)

                What are you going to be running?  I have a char broiler, grill & fryer running 6 hrs a day, six days. I have a 50 gal tank on the ground, it's usually around 40% when it gets filled....30-35gal.


                 
                #38
                  Inkys

                  • Total Posts: 64
                  • Joined: 10/30/2011
                  • Location: Sacramento, CA
                  Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 4:20 AM (permalink)
                  yea, I realized after getting some sleep I was missing something. 10 amps at 120v is 100amps at 12v. Never make big decisions before sleeping on it :-) I'll have to go back and recalculate.
                  I did calculate for efficiency loss three times. There are losses at the initial conversion from 110v to 12v to charge the battery. Loss from the efficiency of the battery, and loss converting back to 110.  Good deep cycles should be 80% or better, so I calculated 80% on battery and 90% on each conversion. That's probably more loss than I'd see on good batteries and equipment.
                  You need to check out that link before shopping for a battery. He spells out the difference between true deep cycles and marine batteries and what plate thickness to look for.  Some batteries (Like Optima Yellow top) promote their cranking amps. That almost irrelevant for a deep cycle, and they won't list their plate thickness, or even their amp hours (they do give a C20 rate). I think they're targeting people using it for starting and other uses like car stereos or RVs. For running equipment I'd get something like a forklift battery that's meant to put out steady amperage for hours.
                   
                  #39
                    daddywoofdawg

                    • Total Posts: 299
                    • Joined: 2/23/2011
                    • Location: Starkweather, ND
                    Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 5:13 AM (permalink)
                    Inkys


                    I'm going to pull the lift at least for my initial dmv weighing. I want a lower empty weight.  I'm having trouble figuring out what it weighs (and how much help I'll need). Web sites always list the lifting weight not the actual weight. Anyone have any idea on this or know where I can get better info?

                    What brand is the liftgate?google the brand and go to there website and it will tell you the weight.I looked mine up and it had it there.

                     
                    #40
                      DWags541

                      • Total Posts: 174
                      • Joined: 2/25/2012
                      • Location: Eugene, OR
                      Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 5:14 AM (permalink)
                      Inkys


                        Some batteries (Like Optima Yellow top) promote their cranking amps. That almost irrelevant for a deep cycle, and they won't list their plate thickness, or even their amp hours (they do give a C20 rate). I think they're targeting people using it for starting and other uses like car stereos or RVs. For running equipment I'd get something like a forklift battery that's meant to put out steady amperage for hours.

                       
                      I've gotten all my deep cycle batteries at Costco. They cost less than 70 bucks. I want to bring one in the house tomorrow and look at the stats on it, then maybe researching some of your calculations and other resources, I can figure out what my needs will be down the line as well.
                       
                      #41
                        Inkys

                        • Total Posts: 64
                        • Joined: 10/30/2011
                        • Location: Sacramento, CA
                        Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 12:36 PM (permalink)
                        $70 would be great! I've been seeing $200+ That web page lists brands that are true deep cycle and forklift use (Crown, Deka, Trojan, Concorde, Rolls-Surrette). According to him, plate thickness is the most important criteria for determining charge cycles and battery life. An auto batter might .04 and spongy (more surface area but less mass) and a good deep cycle can be .27. I have seen battery life ratings that range from 1yr to 7yrs.
                         
                        #42
                          Inkys

                          • Total Posts: 64
                          • Joined: 10/30/2011
                          • Location: Sacramento, CA
                          Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 12:40 PM (permalink)
                          I don't see a brand on it anywhere. There is place where it looks like a label has been removed. I had a guy who works on them look at it and he said it's worth $1500 - $2000 on the used market, but finding a buyer might take a while in this economy. I'm working on getting it off. Similar lifts weight 500lbs and up, so I need forklift. Then I still need to be able to move it, so I'm looking at making a dolly that will hold it folded and upright and I'll strap it to a wall.
                           
                          #43
                            Vic Cardenas

                            • Total Posts: 177
                            • Joined: 2/9/2012
                            • Location: Midvale, UT
                            Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 12:50 PM (permalink)
                            My two cents is: Get either two (or four if you can fit them) Trojan 6v golf cart batteries. The consensus among the RV crowd is that this is the most bang for the buck. I'd have to agree with them. I was a golf cart technician for 3 years. They are great batteries that will take an insane amount of abuse (I've got stories, believe me). If you are looking into amp/hour-per-dollar-spent then I think you'll see this is the best option.
                             
                            #44
                              DWags541

                              • Total Posts: 174
                              • Joined: 2/25/2012
                              • Location: Eugene, OR
                              Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 1:42 PM (permalink)
                              Inkys


                              I don't see a brand on it anywhere. There is place where it looks like a label has been removed. I had a guy who works on them look at it and he said it's worth $1500 - $2000 on the used market, but finding a buyer might take a while in this economy. I'm working on getting it off. Similar lifts weight 500lbs and up, so I need forklift. Then I still need to be able to move it, so I'm looking at making a dolly that will hold it folded and upright and I'll strap it to a wall.

                               
                              Almost sounds like what I have to go through when I move my removable trailer tongue on my large trailer. Its great that it is removable but its a beast. Not nearly as heavy as what you are working with tho. Good Luck!
                               
                              #45
                                Inkys

                                • Total Posts: 64
                                • Joined: 10/30/2011
                                • Location: Sacramento, CA
                                Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 2:26 PM (permalink)
                                Vic Cardenas

                                My two cents is: Get either two (or four if you can fit them) Trojan 6v golf cart batteries.

                                That's the type that site was referring to (Trojan is one of the better names). Golf cart, forklift, and PV (Solar systems) are all intended for sustained heavy use.... 6v is interesting... how does that help? Does it work the inverter harder? I imagine I would need a different or multi input inverter. They have a little more output time at 25amp that the 12volt, but dropping the voltage means upping the amps. Why do they use 6v?
                                 
                                #46
                                  Inkys

                                  • Total Posts: 64
                                  • Joined: 10/30/2011
                                  • Location: Sacramento, CA
                                  Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 02/28/12 2:42 PM (permalink)
                                  one little detail... I was looking at converting an old S-10 pickup to electric a while back (never did that, I'm building my step son an electric go cart instead :-). I came across a site that talked about charging problems when one battery is not up to spec, or worse, you replace one and it's better than all the rest and the higher voltage or better charging response inhibits the others from getting a good charge. They came up with a circuit controller that ensures all batteries get a full charge.  I'll see if I can find that. ... there is a lot more to consider with batteries.
                                   
                                  #47
                                    DWags541

                                    • Total Posts: 174
                                    • Joined: 2/25/2012
                                    • Location: Eugene, OR
                                    Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Thu, 03/1/12 2:29 AM (permalink)
                                    Inksys,
                                    I found out the name of that propane driven espresso machine is "Espresso Man", however, I couldn't find anything online relating to this besides what looked to be some Asian site that I could not navigate.
                                    I did find this tho. I am not able to post links, so bear with.
                                    The company is "fracino". Dot com. You can see a page where they've laid out how the propane system is supported is: espresso-on-the-go-test
                                    That could be of interest to you, perhaps. Good luck.
                                     
                                    #48
                                      daddywoofdawg

                                      • Total Posts: 299
                                      • Joined: 2/23/2011
                                      • Location: Starkweather, ND
                                      Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Thu, 03/1/12 3:10 AM (permalink)
                                      Inksy:If you look at the service manuals here it shows how to install the liftgate so i would think you would do it in reverse. Ok it won't let me post a link,so google del liftgate and look at the manuals.


                                      <message edited by daddywoofdawg on Thu, 03/1/12 3:14 AM>
                                       
                                      #49
                                        Inkys

                                        • Total Posts: 64
                                        • Joined: 10/30/2011
                                        • Location: Sacramento, CA
                                        Re:Making Beauty Out of Beast - 1990 P30 Build Tue, 03/13/12 2:21 AM (permalink)
                                        Haven't posted for a while, but I'll be back soon ... working crazy 14+ hr days between my job and the truck and just life stuff ... would spend every waking minute on the truck if I could!
                                         
                                        #50
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