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 Moist cake recipes

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Rex

  • Total Posts: 109
  • Joined: 11/6/2003
  • Location: Greensboro, NC
Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 11:14 AM (permalink)
I have been trying to figure out how to make a moist cake. The recipes that I have followed give me a moist cake so to speak but the crust around the cake is usually very thick and very hard...not very appetizing.

Does anyone know what makes a moist cake and how to get the crust to turn out right. I hate boxed cake recipes and would like to make my own.

If anyone knows how please...help!
 
#1
    RedPatti

    • Total Posts: 135
    • Joined: 10/7/2003
    • Location: Northridge, CA
    RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 1:12 PM (permalink)
    First, check the oven temperature with a thermometer. I have 40+ years of cake baking and never had a crust you describe. Homemade cakes, occasionally a box mix. The only thing other than making sure the oven is the temperature you are asking of it, you can make the surface of the cake level and the outside crust tender use strips of wet towel in two layers (torn bathroom towels). I have used mine repeatedly over the years (before those great new silver premade strips were available and I still have not purchased). I use T pins to keep the towel in place. This keeps the sides of the pan cooler longer and keeps the cake from having a hump and almost no crust just a nice light brown surface. I'm sure you can remedy this problem fairly easily. Good luck and happy baking.
     
    #2
      jm199

      • Total Posts: 215
      • Joined: 11/24/2003
      • Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
      RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 1:44 PM (permalink)


      Try using applesauce instead of oil in the recipe....or mayonaise!!!

      Both produce a nice moist cake!!!!
       
      #3
        tsores

        • Total Posts: 653
        • Joined: 8/27/2001
        • Location: Evanston, IL
        RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 2:55 PM (permalink)
        quote:
        Originally posted by RedPatti

        First, check the oven temperature with a thermometer. I have 40+ years of cake baking and never had a crust you describe. Homemade cakes, occasionally a box mix. The only thing other than making sure the oven is the temperature you are asking of it, you can make the surface of the cake level and the outside crust tender use strips of wet towel in two layers (torn bathroom towels). I have used mine repeatedly over the years (before those great new silver premade strips were available and I still have not purchased). I use T pins to keep the towel in place. This keeps the sides of the pan cooler longer and keeps the cake from having a hump and almost no crust just a nice light brown surface. I'm sure you can remedy this problem fairly easily. Good luck and happy baking.


        Huh? I don't get it, please desribe the towel thing.
         
        #4
          angelfood

          • Total Posts: 204
          • Joined: 12/15/2003
          • Location: Lowcountry, SC
          RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 3:01 PM (permalink)
          I think the mayonnaise thing is on target. My grandmother used to bake a chocolate cake for my birthday every year. It was chocolate and was totally moist. She called it "mayonnaise cake." She used Duke's mayonnaise.
           
          #5
            Rex

            • Total Posts: 109
            • Joined: 11/6/2003
            • Location: Greensboro, NC
            RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 3:59 PM (permalink)
            Yeah I know Duke's Mayonnaise (lol). I had gotten a recipe off the net not too long ago that told in detail the steps to go thru to make a moist cake. One thing it stressed were the eggs and egg whites....that egg whites were drying agents. Even after doing what the others have told..it still don't work. I had someone tell me to use soda pop to make moist cakes...(lol) others say instant coffee (lol)

            I checked my oven. I have an oven thermometer. I tried to bake on 350..but the crust turned out bad..thought it was the correct temp..so I backed it down to just below 350...but then that extends the baking time instead of fixing the problem I think. This baking stuff sure is stressfull.

            I have noticed that the texture of the cake itself is not quite as spongy as I think it should be and I also heard that you do all your mixing of the cake batter before adding the eggs and add them very last with just enough mixing to get them in there.

            But never heard of the towel trick before...that's a new one on me..but then it wouldn't be hard to impress me at this point (lol)

            Thanks for the help so far
             
            #6
              angelfood

              • Total Posts: 204
              • Joined: 12/15/2003
              • Location: Lowcountry, SC
              RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 4:29 PM (permalink)
              The mayo replaces the oil AND eggs in the recipe.

              http://www.texascooking.com/recipes/Chocmayocake.htm
               
              #7
                Jellybeans

                • Total Posts: 312
                • Joined: 7/24/2003
                • Location: Oxford, VA
                RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 4:42 PM (permalink)
                Rex: from my years of baking, I've never had the exact problem you are facing but I found that these tips work:

                1. Using just egg yolks and adding a little more liquid (e.g. milk if the recipe specifies it)and fat. I know baking is considered an exact science by many but I was taught to bake by feel and to use my discretion when using a recipe.

                2. Try underbaking it a little (i.e. taking it out 5 to 10 minutes before the end of the time specified by the recipe).

                3. Try a better recipe.

                4. Note that some ovens are hotter than others and be familiar with your oven.
                 
                #8
                  RedPatti

                  • Total Posts: 135
                  • Joined: 10/7/2003
                  • Location: Northridge, CA
                  RE: Moist cake recipes Fri, 03/12/04 7:36 PM (permalink)
                  Rex and tsores: Hi, use terry toweling cut into strips as wide as the pan is deep and enough to wrap twice. Wet towels (not enough to drip) and wrap around pan (not on the bottom). I use a T pin (from fabric store it looks like a straight pin with a handle) to hold it in place. Toweling does not burn but does dry out. I was taught this in a cake decorating class. You can reuse the toweling (I have used mine since 1972 thanks to Roberta Smith and it still works great). Keeps the batter from cooking too fast on the edges and browning too fast. I have stopped using dark cake pans (or ones with teflon that is brown) because that does cause a heavier crust and much darker color. I believe it attracts the heat and holds it longer. Using light colored aluminum cake pans is a big help in getting the cake done correctly. I have never modified a cake receipe and never had to throw one out, but I have used the aforementioned mayo and applesauce when the receipe called for it with success. Cookies cook more quickly on a dark pan also, which I prefer since I like the crispy part. Happy eating. You are making me want to go home and make that chocolate cake.
                   
                  #9
                    Jellybeans

                    • Total Posts: 312
                    • Joined: 7/24/2003
                    • Location: Oxford, VA
                    RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 4:44 AM (permalink)
                    One more thing:

                    The size of the cake tin/pan is VERY IMPORTANT! Perhaps you are using one that is too big for the recipe?

                    Too small means that when the cake rises, it may spill over the sides and remain undercooked.

                    Too big means it'll cook faster and in most cases, dry out or burn.
                     
                    #10
                      Rex

                      • Total Posts: 109
                      • Joined: 11/6/2003
                      • Location: Greensboro, NC
                      RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 4:50 AM (permalink)
                      Now there is something that I had not thought about at all. What you bake in. I have been using a glass dish (small sheet cake style). I bake bread in glass and thought nothing about using it for cake. I try to take the cake out as soon as I can....with the toothpick test. I don't want it to undercook in the middle.

                      I know this sounds dumb but I never thought about the replacement for eggs and oil with the mayo (duh).

                      And the recipe that I tried last called for 3 whole eggs and 2 additional egg yolks (at room temperature specifically).

                      But yes I will search out this these other recipes you all have mentioned and try them and see what my success is. I guess I need to change what I am baking in as well. (lol)

                      Thanks again for the advice..feel kinda silly...but smarter
                       
                      #11
                        Jellybeans

                        • Total Posts: 312
                        • Joined: 7/24/2003
                        • Location: Oxford, VA
                        RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 5:41 AM (permalink)
                        Glass dish? Well, I hate to break it to you but it's much MUCH better to bake in a proper non-stick cake pan specifically made for cakes (unlike Redpatti, I haven't noticed any difference using dark-coloured cake pans or light coloured ones). They have them is specific sizes too. For the round ones, standard size is 8 inches or 9 inches. Be aware that square or rectangular tins with those measurements are for bigger amounts of cake batter. If you can get springform cake pans (those with removable bases), so much the better. Do remember to line the bottom with non-stick baking paper and grease the sides liberally, especially if you are planning on baking moist cakes.

                        Here's some links to help (please note that in the UK, we call cake pans 'cake tins')

                        http://www.deliaonline.com/cookeryschool/equipment/e_0000000077.asp

                        And this will help with scaling up cake recipes (although it's for one specific type of cake, it should give you a general idea):

                        http://www.deliaonline.com/cookeryschool/a_0000001002.asp
                         
                        #12
                          Rex

                          • Total Posts: 109
                          • Joined: 11/6/2003
                          • Location: Greensboro, NC
                          RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 6:02 AM (permalink)
                          Thanks Jellybeans, somehow I thought that I might hear those words (lol). But the way I saw it was if I can put a simple cake together and it turned out more or less correctly I would invest in the pans to take it to the next level. But so far the same basic failed result..so I am thinking more than ever the glass is a big part of the problem. But I will check those links...because any information at this point is helpful. Thanks for responding and giving the links....they are appreciated
                           
                          #13
                            Jellybeans

                            • Total Posts: 312
                            • Joined: 7/24/2003
                            • Location: Oxford, VA
                            RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 6:08 AM (permalink)
                            By the way, here are some foolproof recipes for cakes (it's in British measurements so run it through allrecipes.com's measurement converter or find a cookbook with both British (Imperial), Metric and American measurements and do the conversions yourself--I do it all the time when I use American recipes):

                            You may want to start out (as most of us have in Home Ec classes in the UK and Commonwealth countries where we have missionary schools) with baking a sponge cake which is the easiest cake of all and once you've got it right, then baking other cakes will be easy-peasy:

                            Classic Victorian Sponge (the filling suggested is one variation. You can fill it with all sorts of creams and jams etc). Note the classic proportions of ingredients of 2-4-4-4 (2 eggs, 4 oz each of flour, butter and sugar):

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001127.asp

                            This one is an all-in-one Victoria sponge so it's even easier--just chuck everything in the bowl and mix instead of creaming it:

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001033.asp

                            Most beginners learn both.

                            And here are a selection of cakes that are guaranteed to be moist:

                            Squidgy Chocolate Log

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001217.asp

                            Greek Orange and Honey Syrup cake with Yoghurt and Pistachios:

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001437.asp

                            Moist Chocolate, Prune and Armagnac Squares:

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001432.asp

                            Moist Carrot Cake:

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001130.asp

                            Austrian Coffee and Walnut Cake with Coffee Cream (note: it's flavoured with coffee, not a coffee cake in the American sense):

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001128.asp

                            Quick Apricot, Apple and Pecan Loaf Cake:

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001101.asp

                            Lemon Roulade:

                            http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001064.asp

                            I know all the jokes about British cookery but if there's one thing you can't fault the British for, it's that they don't know how to make desserts and sweet stuff. Even as far back as the 16th Century, British puddings (catch-all phrase for desserts and sweet stuff here in the UK) are lauded throughout Western Europe, even surpassing the French (and no rude French jokes please).

                            I hope this all helps, Rex.
                             
                            #14
                              Jellybeans

                              • Total Posts: 312
                              • Joined: 7/24/2003
                              • Location: Oxford, VA
                              RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 6:13 AM (permalink)
                              quote:
                              Originally posted by Rex

                              Thanks Jellybeans, somehow I thought that I might hear those words (lol). But the way I saw it was if I can put a simple cake together and it turned out more or less correctly I would invest in the pans to take it to the next level. But so far the same basic failed result..so I am thinking more than ever the glass is a big part of the problem. But I will check those links...because any information at this point is helpful. Thanks for responding and giving the links....they are appreciated


                              Rex, I think you might try buying cheap cake pans first. They call baking a science precisely because you need the right equipment (especially baking vessels) to get it right and experience tells me that this rule holds true. Everyone I know who is a beginner baker at the very least borrows proper cake pans/tins from their friends who bake a lot. I have loaned out mine to so many friends who went on to buy their own. I don't know about the States, but over here, we can get really cheap baking equipment to start with and then go on to more expensive and durable ones once baking becomes part of our kitchen routine.
                               
                              #15
                                Rex

                                • Total Posts: 109
                                • Joined: 11/6/2003
                                • Location: Greensboro, NC
                                RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 6:26 AM (permalink)
                                Yes Jellybeans...those links will be much help. And you are correct the British should be hailed and applauded for baking. If they know anything at all outside of proper etiquette..it is how to prepare the best sweets (in my opinion).

                                But the links are very much appreciated and I am familiar with allrecipes conversion. And that will help.

                                You can buy cheap everything here in the states..lol But I have always been of the mind that you get what you pay for and I figured I would only be adding to the problem by using cheap baking tins. Since I use glass so much for everything else...I just never thought about it. But you live and learn. Like I said I have never baked from scratch, wasn't even sure I had the talent for it. And there is a talent to it. Normally I am a very basic cook and from time to time I get the urge to cook things that I would normally buy pre-made since it is just me. But looking at these links and seeing these different things (and I have always liked sponge cake..which I think we call angel cake over here, but not sure)makes me want to give it a go again and see what I can do. This information may just make all the difference.
                                 
                                #16
                                  Jellybeans

                                  • Total Posts: 312
                                  • Joined: 7/24/2003
                                  • Location: Oxford, VA
                                  RE: Moist cake recipes Sat, 03/13/04 9:24 AM (permalink)
                                  Sponge cake isn't Angelfood cake--they are both really different as angelfood cake is much lighter than the sponge although you can make a very light sponge--just different textures.

                                  Re buying cheap baking pans: don't worry. The small extra expense of buying cheap stuff is paid back many times over when you finally learn to bake properly. Then you can just dispose of it and get the better stuff. That's what's happened to me. I started with cheap stuff (although cheap stuff in the UK can be very sturdy is you know where to get it) and then later, my parents and sundry (ex) boyfriends just added on the expensive stuff (I bought myself some expensive stuff too)
                                   
                                  #17
                                    JaneDough

                                    • Total Posts: 127
                                    • Joined: 5/9/2003
                                    • Location: Drexel Hill, PA
                                    RE: Moist cake recipes Sun, 03/14/04 8:33 AM (permalink)
                                    Rex:

                                    Find a restaurant supply store and invest in some professional-weight cake pans. They'll be made of aluminum which distributes heat evenly. Calphalon also makes some pro-wt nonsticks that I like (even tho I don't like their anodized aluminum cookware).

                                    As for the towel-wrapping trick, it's a great homemade version of those silver-colored (burn resistant, like an ironing board cover) commercial strips, which I use & highly recommend. I forget what they're called (maybe moist cakes strips or something like that), but they're not too expensive (reusable & well worth the investment) and can be found in most kitchen stores. They come w/ the t-pins RedPatti describes, and the 2 in the box can be pinned end-to-end if you're using a large (12" or more) cake pan, like I do for wedding cake bases.

                                    Good luck!
                                     
                                    #18
                                      ahmicchick

                                      • Total Posts: 107
                                      • Joined: 2/16/2004
                                      • Location: Auburn, AL
                                      RE: Moist cake recipes Sun, 03/14/04 9:17 AM (permalink)
                                      Wow, great topic, I've learned a lot as I've read through it!

                                      Rex: One other possible help with the crust problem: I took a cake decorating class a couple of years ago, and the teacher recommended that we remove the cake from the pan as soon as you bring it out of the oven. Take a tea towel and place it over a wire rack, then invert the cake onto the towel-covered rack. The cake won't stick to the towel. Although the teacher didn't explain why this step was important, I suspect it has something to do with allowing the crust to stop baking immediately.

                                      About the purchase of cake pans: on another thread, someone recommended looking at yard sales to find cookware, you never know when you might get lucky!

                                      Jellybeans: I once joked that "English Cuisine" is an oxymoron, since that is my own heritage and, from experience, it's pretty hard to get anyone else really excited about Yorkshire pudding and mushy peas.
                                       
                                      #19
                                        Rex

                                        • Total Posts: 109
                                        • Joined: 11/6/2003
                                        • Location: Greensboro, NC
                                        RE: Moist cake recipes Sun, 03/14/04 10:32 AM (permalink)
                                        Yes I know a few friends who use the spring pans to make cheesecakes and stuff like that and they are hard core about their pans. I think they call them "spring form" pans or something like that.

                                        I am going to have to try and see what I can do. I know about the T pins and I need to experiment with the strips of towel as well.

                                        I think the wet towels are based on the same theory that I have used in the past when during the summertime when I have to go to town shopping and it is hot out and I have a few stops to make, I carry a bottle of water with me and papertowels. When I stop to pick up my contacts and still have other shopping to do I soak the towels in water and wrap the contact boxes with them and place them on the floor board. When I get back the car is hot inside but the contact boxes are still cool. So I am assuming that the wet towels over the cake is the same thing basically.

                                        Who would ever think making a simple cake would involve so much. And to think I was wondering what they put in the instant mixes to make them turn out like they do.

                                        Anyway it looks like I have some testing ahead of me. Thanks again everyone who took the time and trouble to help me in my quest for the moist homemade cake.
                                         
                                        #20
                                          Jellybeans

                                          • Total Posts: 312
                                          • Joined: 7/24/2003
                                          • Location: Oxford, VA
                                          RE: Moist cake recipes Sun, 03/14/04 11:05 AM (permalink)
                                          I personally never needed to use a towel, however, perhaps it's the same principle as baking bread:

                                          If you want your bread crusty, leave it to cool without wrapping with a towel.

                                          If you want your bread soft, wrap it in a clean dishcloth/tea towel. It keeps the steam in and the steam softens the crust.

                                          I don't advocate tipping the cake out too soon, especially if it's a heavy and moist cake or a very light one as they tend to crack if you are not careful. Some recipes even specify that you need to wait a few minutes before turning the cake out onto the cooling rack.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            Rex

                                            • Total Posts: 109
                                            • Joined: 11/6/2003
                                            • Location: Greensboro, NC
                                            RE: Moist cake recipes Sun, 03/14/04 11:12 AM (permalink)
                                            I have seen family members when I was a child pull cakes out of the oven and set them (still in the pans) on racks to cool so the air could circulate around them and cool them evenly..(that was what I was told anyway).

                                            Now with my breads..I seem to have no trouble...except depending on the type of heat that is in the house at the time. I have found out very recently that if I am using electric heat during the colder months that the bread does not rise as well. But if I have the electric heat off and am using only my kerosene heater to heat the house the bread rises in abundance...I attribute that to the difference in the heat sources with the electric being more dry.

                                            But I think I am going to give the sponge cake a run and see what I can do with it today. Won't be putting in any fruit...just want to see what the success of the texture will turn out to be.
                                             
                                            #22
                                              Jellybeans

                                              • Total Posts: 312
                                              • Joined: 7/24/2003
                                              • Location: Oxford, VA
                                              RE: Moist cake recipes Sun, 03/14/04 11:23 AM (permalink)
                                              Yes, try a plain sponge cake first. You don't need to put fruit in--you can slice it across in half and spread any filling you want and sandwich it together.

                                              Your family is right about the putting the cake still in its hot pan to cool on the cooling rack. Do that, then after about 5 minutes, carefully invert the cake out to cool by itself sans cake pan on the rack.
                                               
                                              #23
                                                Rex

                                                • Total Posts: 109
                                                • Joined: 11/6/2003
                                                • Location: Greensboro, NC
                                                RE: Moist cake recipes Sun, 03/14/04 11:32 AM (permalink)
                                                Yeah, the cooks in the family would flip them when they were cool and when it came to putting the layers together for icing, they would flip each one upside down so the tops would be flat and smooth instead of with a lump in the middle..lol I used to ask why they just didn't learn how to cook them right to begin with (I used to get alot of spankings as a child)

                                                will let you know how the results turn out
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  JaneDough

                                                  • Total Posts: 127
                                                  • Joined: 5/9/2003
                                                  • Location: Drexel Hill, PA
                                                  RE: Moist cake recipes Mon, 03/15/04 1:28 PM (permalink)
                                                  Rex:

                                                  I remembered the name of those ready-made strips to help cakes bake evenly: MagiCake Strips. Trust me on this one, folks. I'm a professional pastry chef, and have also adopted many tips and hints from Rose Levy Barenbaum, author of "The Cake Bible" and other fact-filled cookbooks.

                                                  Baking is a science, as Rose, a chemist, explains very well. You can't mess around too much with the process. The idea behind the MagiCake Strips (and the home-made towel strip version) is that without them, the batter around the rim of the cake will be exposed to (and therefore absorb) the heat from the oven before the middle of the cake does. By the time the middle of the cake is baked, the edges have absorbed much more heat than the middle, and are probably overdone. Moist fabric wrapped around the sides of the cake pan keep the outer edges cool, so they don't bake faster than the middle.

                                                  MagiCake Strips are made of that heat-reflective silver fabric often used for ironing board covers, filled with absorbent insulating material. You run cool water inside each strip, squeeze it out between your fingers, wrap if around the pan, and bake. VOILA!

                                                  I recommend leaving the cake in the pan for about 5-10 minutes after it comes out of the oven (on a cooling rack). Otherwise, it may not be fully set (especially if it is the moist variety you seek), and may crack into pieces.

                                                  Better yet, don't listen to me, buy "The Cake Bible" and read it. It truly IS the bible of cake-baking, and explains every step and every ingredient, including variations and substitutions that can be made safely. Good luck!
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    ocdreamr

                                                    • Total Posts: 1109
                                                    • Joined: 3/12/2003
                                                    • Location: Wilmington, NC
                                                    RE: Moist cake recipes Mon, 03/15/04 4:11 PM (permalink)
                                                    quote:
                                                    Originally posted by JaneDough

                                                    The idea behind the MagiCake Strips (and the home-made towel strip version) is that without them, the batter around the rim of the cake will be exposed to (and therefore absorb) the heat from the oven before the middle of the cake does. By the time the middle of the cake is baked, the edges have absorbed much more heat than the middle, and are probably overdone. Moist fabric wrapped around the sides of the cake pan keep the outer edges cool, so they don't bake faster than the middle.


                                                    When I was taking courses in cake decorating, these strips came out. One of the main reasons given for their use was to help the cake rise evenly due to the cutting of the heat on the sides of the pans. Thus, we were told, no more dome cakes! I bought a set at the time but had a real bad oven back then & they caught on fire the first time I used them. After I bought a new oven I didn't buy any more to try them out and now I only bake a cake on a rare occasion

                                                    I do agree with you Jane, You can't go wrong with "The Cake Bible". Recently got a copy of Rose's "Pie Bible" and am waiting for the Bread Bible.
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      ahmicchick

                                                      • Total Posts: 107
                                                      • Joined: 2/16/2004
                                                      • Location: Auburn, AL
                                                      RE: Moist cake recipes Mon, 03/15/04 4:57 PM (permalink)
                                                      Okay, I think I'm gonna have to make up some of these strips myself and try leaving the cake in the pan to cool, and see what happens. Heaven help me when this makes my cakes even BETTER, because I make and eat too many anyway.

                                                      By the way, as far as bakeware goes, does anyone have any brand recommendations? I know that the cake-decorating class I took was, in part, a way for Wilton to promote sales of their products. And it worked! But I've never tried any other products, and have never seen any other company that specializes in bakeware (unless you count Ekco) or cake decorating supplies. What else is out there, and do you have any favorites?
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        Rex

                                                        • Total Posts: 109
                                                        • Joined: 11/6/2003
                                                        • Location: Greensboro, NC
                                                        RE: Moist cake recipes Wed, 03/17/04 1:55 PM (permalink)
                                                        I always felt that cooking should be more fun than work. My mother hated cooking with a passion and never taught me much. Other cooks in the family had fun with it and were darn good at it. And most everyone I know is a "feel" cook. Pinch of this and a pinch of that type cooks. The only people that I ever figured treated it like a science were chef's. Because back in the old old days people didn't have much to work with for the most part and ovens weren't like they are today...to be sure. It's got to be easy...it just has to.
                                                         
                                                        #28
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