Helpful ReplyHot!A Line That has to be Drawn

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Treetop Tom
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2013/09/12 10:02:28 (permalink)

A Line That has to be Drawn

Once again, a discussion on another thread has brought out the questioning linguist in me.  It goes something like this:  Some sandwiches are named by their ingredients – pimento cheese or peanut butter & jelly or pulled pork.  Not much to think about – they are what they’re made of.  But how much leeway do you give named sandwiches before they cross the line into no longer representing a proper specimen?  For example, most people (but not all) will now accept that a Reuben can be made with either corned beef or pastrami (or amongst some scofflaws, even turkey, substituting slaw for kraut [sometimes referred to as a Rachel]).  Some will accept 1000 Island dressing, others demand Russian.  Traditionally, a Monte Cristo is made with ham & Emmentaler or Gruyere cheese, dipped, deep-fried and served with jam (or it was in my neck of the woods, anyway).  Many recipes now call for turkey, either in place of, or in addition to, the ham.  Some substitute Swiss cheese for the traditional French cheeses.  Some leave out the jam altogether, to the horror of purists.  Would a Muffuletta still be correctly called one if it was made with American cold cuts and cheese with pickle relish rather than Italian cold cuts, cheeses and olive salad spread?   Is a Devonshire made with beef and Gouda cheese sauce a Devonshire?  Is a chicken cheesesteak really a cheesesteak at all?  What is a sandwich you draw a firm line on?  Are there any?
post edited by Treetop Tom - 2013/09/12 11:32:42
#1
Phildelmar
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 11:10:41 (permalink)
Good points. A Reuben made with turkey is called a Rachel around here.
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myterry2
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 11:16:28 (permalink)
Correct..but it's all about making money...owners of these type sandwich shops, deli's, etc., don't want to miss one dollar of business, so they starting inventing cross breeding of long time staple sandwiches.  And it continues to be a work in progress.
 
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ann peeples
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 12:46:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
In 1977, a Monte Christo was turkey, ham and American cheese. Deep fried, dusted with powdered sugar and serves with strawberry jam. The other sandwich I noticed that is different is a club sandwich. In my day it was basically a BLT with turkey.Cut in quarters. Nowadays, at famous sandwich parlors, its ham, turkey and cheese-no bacon!
#4
ALL GOOD
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 13:39:06 (permalink)
A grilled cheese used to be the same everywhere you went..white bread, american cheese, grilled on the flat iron.  Now, today, we have specialty food trucks and even restaurants that ONLY do grilled cheese in an array of varieties.  Bring back the old standard!
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DaddyRoux
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 14:45:41 (permalink)
These misnomer food crimes started with Chicken and Shrimp "Fajitas" in the '80's.
 Once sandwich ingredients veer from the accepted recipe, they should take on a different name.
DR
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 15:54:33 (permalink)
Then there were Olive Garden's commercials a couple of years ago for chicken scampi, which is a kind of hard thing to do.
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 19:43:51 (permalink)
I've never heard of deep frying a Monte Cristo.
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ann peeples
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 19:49:53 (permalink)
I worked for a California based restaurant named JoJos- that's how they did it-I am thinking they came in premade and frozen.........thus the deep frying. I had never heard of the sandwich before, so I had nothing to compare it to....
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Phildelmar
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 20:21:50 (permalink)
The ones that I've had weren't deep fried.
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Treetop Tom
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 20:49:21 (permalink)
Michael Hoffman
 
I've never heard of deep frying a Monte Cristo.

 
Phildelmar

The ones that I've had weren't deep fried.

Curious.  How were they done if they weren't fried in oil?  Grilled?  Not all of the ones I've had were full immersion fried, probably, but they were definitely fried.  I wasn't aware they came any other way.
post edited by Treetop Tom - 2013/09/12 20:51:22
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 20:56:22 (permalink)
They're usually fried in a skillet, or on a flattop.
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Treetop Tom
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 21:11:24 (permalink)
Michael Hoffman

They're usually fried in a skillet, or on a flattop.

Deep fried in a skillet I would understand.  Shallow frying in a skillet where the sandwich had to be turned would allow for greater grease absorption and a soggy crust.
post edited by Treetop Tom - 2013/09/12 21:14:12
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 21:18:05 (permalink)
As my grandchildren are won't to say, Whatever.
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Treetop Tom
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 21:22:42 (permalink)
Michael Hoffman

As my grandchildren are won't to say, Whatever.

Spoken like a true know-it-all, Michael.
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 21:25:04 (permalink)
How very clever. Who's writing your material?
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Treetop Tom
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 21:30:00 (permalink)
Michael Hoffman

How very clever. Who's writing your material?

It must be a great convenience to your wife and family to have someone who knows everything there is to know right at hand.
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ayersian
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 21:30:08 (permalink)
myterry2
Correct..but it's all about making money...owners of these type sandwich shops, deli's, etc., don't want to miss one dollar of business, so they starting inventing cross breeding of long time staple sandwiches.  And it continues to be a work in progress.

I think this is what makes Roadfooding so much fun for me, although it spoils you quickly.  For example, I grew up in the South and didn't eat a real Philly cheesesteak until adulthood.  Yet my mother made us Steak-umm sandwiches that we loved as kids (though I'd never buy those again, even for nostalgia's sake).  Now that I've thoroughly studied and consumed the finest cheesesteaks in Philly, I'm not that inclined to try them outside of said city.  Sure, there are hits and misses, but there's always something else better to eat, too.  And it's not that I'm trying to stay as regionally appropriate as possible -- it's simply a matter of taste and preference.  I love when restaurants attempt their own versions of the classics, especially when they come really, really close to the taste of the originals.  Those are the places about which I am most enthusiastic to write!    Chris
 
 
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CajunKing
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 21:50:00 (permalink)
I agree with you Chris, the differences between even restaurants that are in the same city are fun to explore and learn about.  The histories of many of these places often have a central link (somebody worked for or was the nephew of....) and it is also fun to learn about them too.
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Treetop Tom
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 22:06:06 (permalink)
CajunKing

I agree with you Chris, the differences between even restaurants that are in the same city are fun to explore and learn about.  The histories of many of these places often have a central link (somebody worked for or was the nephew of....) and it is also fun to learn about them too.

Along those same lines, I've always been interested in cross-town (sometimes cross-street) claims of being "the first."  Who really was the first in El Reno, OK, to smash together ground beef and onions to make an onion burger?  Who was the first to make a "Juicy Lucy"?  Many can claim it, but only one can be correct.  But who knows?
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/12 23:02:06 (permalink)
Treetop Tom

Michael Hoffman

How very clever. Who's writing your material?

It must be a great convenience to your wife and family to have someone who knows everything there is to know right at hand.

I'm sorry you can't handle the fact that I know how a particular sandwich is supposed to be done, and you obviously do not. I guess the fact that I find the food at Chubby's  to be quite good drives you ever the edge. Too bad. Oh, and I don't know quite everything. For instance, I don't know why your knickers are always in a twist.
post edited by Michael Hoffman - 2013/09/12 23:34:09
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easydoesit
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 03:33:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
The first Monte Christo I can remember was in Alaska in the mid 70's.  Don't remember the exact ingredients, but it was dipped and deep-fried and delicious.  Several others after that were the same.  Lately, I would like another like that, but can't find it.  They always seem to be grilled, which I always considered to be the lazy cook's way.  I'm looking for the old way.
 
Re the club sandwich, and Ann Peeples remark about bacon -- yes, what happened to the bacon in many club sandwiches lately?  It's just gone, and that removes it from the 'club' category, for me.
  
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ocdreamr
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 05:30:03 (permalink)
I saw this the first time the other day. It was in the frozen case at the grocers.  All I could do was look at it & ask myself which is it????
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Treetop Tom
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 09:01:27 (permalink)
Sigh.  Please go troll somewhere else, Michael.  Your constant need to “score points” has transcended your goal of aggravation and simply has become tiresome and pitiable.   And just so you know, you've become the first poster I've ever blocked, so your future "witty rejoinders" to me will be (thankfully) falling on deaf ears.  Have a nice day!
post edited by Treetop Tom - 2013/09/13 10:03:50
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Phildelmar
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 10:40:53 (permalink)
Was just looking at a menu from Catherine Rooneys, an Irish pub in Wilmington, and they list a Monte Cristo quesadilla.
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 10:55:15 (permalink)
The poor sparrow in the treetop just can't stand the heat.
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pnwchef
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 12:08:02 (permalink)
It only took about 10 hrs for treetop to start a argument. At least he's screwing up his own post, not someone else's..........
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 12:16:04 (permalink)
Ah, the flagger strikes again.
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Treetop Tom
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 12:21:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
BAM!  Another troll blocked!  I wonder why I didn't do this months ago - LOL!!!
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tiki
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Re:A Line That has to be Drawn 2013/09/13 13:14:40 (permalink)
Deep frying ANY sandwich is the lazy mans--made cheap--adaptaion!! Sauteing--in BUTTER!--is way CLAAIER, TASTIER AND JUST PLAIN DELICIOUS---ESPECIALLY THE WAY MOST PLACE MAINTAIN THEIR DEEP FRY OIL! When i can smell the deep fryer from the front door, i KNOW what the fried food will taste like already!
 
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