Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (iluvcfood)

Fri, 22 Feb 2013 21:28:05 GMT

wanderingjew

Mar,

After reviewing the article, I agree with Pigiron.

If the Kosher Style Deli's are anything like the small handful of deli's left in the NYC area they're mostly relying on tourists for a culinary treat that unfortunately is taking its last gasp of breath.

I just happened upon this article today..........
http://www.latimes.com/bu...130222,0,2585725.story

Oh well! I think in San Diego most of them have closed as well!

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Tue, 12 Feb 2013 06:27:18 GMT

OK.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Tue, 12 Feb 2013 03:20:11 GMT

Indeed. Like the landlord of 1035 Swarthmore thought they had a tenant that would pay...and stay. Hmmm...

Maybe in your world there is no loyalty. This is Roadfood. Many go way out of their way...to have it & enjoy it!

Embrace the Roadfood. You may enjoy it...and find much happiness in it!

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:28:55 GMT

In today's world, gratitude and loyalty is for chumps.

There is nor has there ever been any loyalty in business.
It doesn't matter how good your product is if another place opens up down the street your customers will try it, especially if it's cheaper.
Then they'll come back and tell you it's crap.
Landlords do raise rents but tenants also move down the street all by themselves. Loyal landlords get screwed by tenants as much as the other way around.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:18:56 GMT

CCinNJ

Most businesses do fail. I don't know what good sense it makes to bank on Lenny's Deli vs. the 53 year track-record of the family business...that spared such turnover for decades.

It's a much more complex market vs. the market of rest of the country...or other countries. That's for sure.

I thought we settled that, Lenny's will pay Juniors decided not to.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:31:18 GMT

Nah...a strong sense of loyalty...a good mind for a good fight ...and a rock hard set preserves plenty in the best neighborhoods.. Plenty.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (bartl)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:47:30 GMT

Here is a situation that is, unfortunately, not at all uncommon.

A neighborhood is in the pits. It is very difficult to rent out storefronts. But a businessperson with a good idea moves into a store. And the idea works. And brings people to the neighborhood. The neighborhood becomes desirable. So the landlord of the original business hikes up the rents to the point where the original business has to leave.

So, the person who is responsible for the landlord's property going up in value gets kicked out by the landlord. On the other hand, the landlord is not getting the maximum profit out of his or her property.

In today's world, gratitude and loyalty is for chumps.

Bart

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:52:11 GMT

Most businesses do fail. I don't know what good sense it makes to bank on Lenny's Deli vs. the 53 year track-record of the family business...that spared such turnover for decades.

It's a much more complex market vs. the market of rest of the country...or other countries. That's for sure.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:40:04 GMT

Every dog has it's day. Good tenants do go bad even after 53 years. Not to many same owners after that much time, sons and daughters that destroy passed relationships and businesses.
Do you know most businesses fail within 5 years, the next big time is 20 years, that's when dad or mom turn it over to the kids.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 08:59:22 GMT

A good tenant was there for 53 years.

That meant NO idle property or costs associated with turnover in all that time...with a successful tenant. That alone has saved a fortune in money & headaches.

A good tenant is not simply the latest one who agrees to pay the asking price. There are plenty of them who eventually don't....or fail....putting a landlord on a turnover carousel of risk - turnover - court - expenses to list/fix/modify for future chances.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 07:39:48 GMT

mar52

You're placing your bets on the possibility that times would not turn around AND that your next tenant will make a go of it.

There usually is at least a few months lapse with no income for the landlord between tenants unless like in Junior's case... the next tenant is the exact same business.

On Ventura Boulevard where my store sat the For Lease signs were in the windows for many months to over a year or more.

I always joked that the business to be in was the one that printed For Lease signs.

That's exactly right. It's what being a landlord means, getting as much for your property as possible when it is rented to a good tenant. Not letting a bad tenant tell you what your property is worth. Realizing that over your span of ownership there will be times the building will be empty.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:35:25 GMT

You're placing a bet on someone who has flipped the majority previous ventures to other parties that are yet to be determined...so no way to bank on them.

You're banking on someone who just came from a short-term venture that is identical to the current venture...with very poor ratings/results...

vs. the long-term established successful tenants that had a following...and many loyal customers. Many of them won't be customers of Lenny's based on the feedback attached to every story written about the news.

I'm not sure where the 25 bakeries & delis throughout NY & NJ are/were.

I know of one bakery in NJ.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (mar52)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:17:24 GMT

You're placing your bets on the possibility that times would not turn around AND that your next tenant will make a go of it.

There usually is at least a few months lapse with no income for the landlord between tenants unless like in Junior's case... the next tenant is the exact same business.

On Ventura Boulevard where my store sat the For Lease signs were in the windows for many months to over a year or more.

I always joked that the business to be in was the one that printed For Lease signs.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:09:41 GMT

I still don't agree with the word greedy.
If the landlord sets a price he needs and the tenant won't pay the tenant leaves and the landlord rents the place for his price he made a wise business move. He got what he needed, nothing to do with greed. Everything in this world is only worth what someone is willing to pay. The difference between the struggling business people and the successful ones are how much nerve you have when you price something. I don't know how many times I have read on here that people are selling a top quality product cheap and struggling because the say that's all the customers in their area will pay. You can't let your customers or your tenants set your prices, prices are set by analysing your costs.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:52:39 GMT

I guess there would be a case that I would do that but not likely.
First, the rent is or should be a small potion of your gross. Lets say the rent is 20,000 I don't raise it 5% instead I give you a 10% discount. So I'm saving you 2,000 a year. There is no way in the world that is going to save your business. If the rent is truly to much you are already screwed. My biggest problem with cutting a tenants rent is if they can't pay I want them out as soon as possible so I don't miss a good tenant. I would rather have the unit empty for 6 months until a good tenant comes along.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (saps)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:24:17 GMT

OK- I get that- that's a good explanation. I've had to do that with tenants- I had one who I froze rent for 4 years in a flourishing downtown area. Unfortunately, got burned in the end when she moved out, and pulled the sinks out of the wall and other fixtures, but not enough damage to get attorneys involved.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (mar52)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 19:17:55 GMT

Sometimes the cost of doing business needs to be reassessed.

A landlord collects triple net which is not only the rent, but every other bill related to the building a person is renting like taxes, licenses, building maintenance, etc....

The lease states that rent goes up 5% or the cost of living, whichever is lower every year....

The economy tanks... stores are closing everywhere...

A smart landlord will say... no need to raise the rent this year or I'm giving you a break in the rent this next year or for 3 or 6 months...

The greedy landlord says.. Pay the raise or move out... it's in the lease.

Just my opinion as a leasee and a lessor.

There are some landlords that forgive months of rent due to bad times. The greedy do not.

Of course it's their building and they can do what they want in the course of doing their business as landlords. I'm not saying that they can't.

There are just some that are for a better word... greedy.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (saps)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:01:26 GMT

mar52

Selling a valuable phone number for a high price is not like a greedy landlord. I have it... you want it... $$$

And then...

Eminent domain happens. The city or the state is the real owner.

In my case the city tried to have one of our buildings classified as a historical. We fought it and won as the city that was pushing the cause was not the city the building sits in... it was adjacent.

They would put up a plaque and we would not have had any control of our own property had that occurred.

I don't see the difference between selling a phone number at a high price or the "greedy" landlord. Both have something that has value that someone else wants. In either case, if the price is too high, the landlord doesn't lease his property or the seller doesn't sell the phone number. And if a deal is struck on either, it's because both parties (buyer/seller, or lessor/lessee) came to an agreement. And if the tenant is asking for less than market value, doesn't that make him greedy, or is he just trying to get the best deal for him/herself? What is the line between greedy and acceptable, and who gets to determine that?

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:36:18 GMT

There's nothing to give up. Enjoy some Roadfood!

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:55:58 GMT

CCinNJ

Your opinion is on the record. Enjoy your vacation.

Does that mean you give up ? Enjoy the snow.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Foodbme)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 20:54:39 GMT

MetroplexJim

saps

The ignorance of some people on these boards is amazing. The old "greedy landlord" stereotype. A landlord runs a business, just like anyone else. He typically has a mortgage to pay, real estate taxes, insurance, and operating costs just like anyone else. He takes real economic risk in the possibility that he loses tenants- at certain times, depending upon the economy, he has to take on expensive build-outs or rent abatements at his own risk. Most investment property owners aren't rich, and they struggle along in these economies just like everyone else.

Given the choice, a landlord would be a fool not to take a Chase Bank over a Roadfood joint. Chase is a tenant that would sign a corporate lease, pay more than a local joint, sign a longer term triple-net lease, and is an accredited tenant. If you're a landlord and you're interested in taking care of your family, you would make that deal in a heartbeat, and you would only be incurring risk by re-signing a restaurant, especially in these times. Moreover, why is it OK for a Roadfood joint to try and be successful, while it's not OK for the landlord to do his best to be successful? Why is it that the landlord is responsible for his tenant beyond the stipulations of the lease? If you've ever owned a property, you know the risks and benefits of ownership. If you've ever had a building go under 50% occupancy, had it foreclosed upon, and had it taken by the bank, you know the risks. Most people don't get it. The "rich, greedy, landlord" stereotype is such a convenient crutch to fall on. When times are tough, do you know who usually gets paid last? The landlord.

If you've ever sat in a courtroom trying to get back 8 months of rent after a tenant has moved out in the middle of the night because he got a better deal somewhere else and has stiffed you, and you've spent substantial $$ on attorneys fees and your time, you might have an idea what I'm talking about. I don't understand why people think it's OK for a individual to go to work and try to make as much money as he or she can everyday, but it's not OK for a landlord to insure that he or she has the most secure tenant possible that maximizes their profit. Truly, if a store owner or a restaurant can't pay the going lease rate, is that the landlord's fault? If the landlord gives the tenant a sweetheart deal and ultimately is overwhelmed by rising expenses over the lease term, who takes care of the "evil landlord"? And what happens if a less secure tenant goes out of business, leaving the "greedy landlord" with a vacant building, but still with a mortgage, utilities, and taxes to pay? I guess the "greedy landlord" just deserves that.

Thank you, saps, for having the patience to write the simple truth in a calm, evocative, eloquent manner. In the present environment I just cannot "do" calm.

Presently, I teach economics and own properties. In the former I earn an ever-growing income ( & benefits + pension); in the latter, my net has fallen by 70% over the past five years to the point where I pay more in property tax than I net.

As is typical for those of us who turn 65 as I did last month, I look back and contemplate how life may have been had I taken a different path. Frankly, the "greediest" path not taken was my declining, at 30, a GS-13/14 position with the then newly formed Department of Energy. At that point "the Administration" was having a difficult time making breeder reactor technology (falsely) "look bad" and it, evidently, needed a man of my talents. Had I signed on for that in 1978, today's 'financial worst case' (should I have spent 35 years being a vegetable with just a sandwich and the Washington Post in my fine leather briefcase) would be $160K + benefits and entitlement at any time to take a $100K + benefits pension + a 'double dip' for social security benefits earned prior to government "service".

But, someone took that job.

Maybe that individual, like a grad-school buddy, did something truly spectacular: like earning his 10,000th. Master Point in Contract Bridge while on the government ~~teat~~ payroll.

You and I are still paying .... and that individual is laughing, and will brag at his next class reunion about the immense POWER he has exercised during his 'career' as a 'public servant'.

I'm glad that was a "road not taken"; in one way or another I would have died from some manifestation of shame years ago.

Edit: I find it terribly amusing that someone saw fit to "flag" this personal reminiscence/reflection.

Whomever,Whoever, Whatever flagged this post it the Idiot, not you or SAP.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (1bbqboy)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 19:30:14 GMT

Ice Cream Man

There's no such thing as a greedy landlord, just some who maximize their investment and some that don't. Smart business people and not so smart. Just like I have it you want it $$$.
LA & NYC, just the same as everywhere else, time doesn't stand still if you're not moving ahead you're falling behind, no exceptions even for Roadfood.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 19:22:44 GMT

Your opinion is on the record. Enjoy your vacation.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 19:20:40 GMT

There's no such thing as a greedy landlord, just some who maximize their investment and some that don't. Smart business people and not so smart. Just like I have it you want it $$$.
LA & NYC, just the same as everywhere else, time doesn't stand still if you're not moving ahead you're falling behind, no exceptions even for Roadfood.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (mar52)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 12:51:10 GMT

Selling a valuable phone number for a high price is not like a greedy landlord. I have it... you want it... $$$

And then...

Eminent domain happens. The city or the state is the real owner.

In my case the city tried to have one of our buildings classified as a historical. We fought it and won as the city that was pushing the cause was not the city the building sits in... it was adjacent.

They would put up a plaque and we would not have had any control of our own property had that occurred.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 10:40:05 GMT

You can equate your situation to the rental landscape of Los Angeles & NYC.

That does not make them the same...but whatever. Have at it!

ALL landords don't suck.

The rental landscape in Los Angeles & NYC is a big factor in why many Roadfood establishments and many entire catagories of Roadfood disappear.

That's a shame...when we're talking about beloved Roadfood places that were a fixture for many years. This is Roadfood.

There's more to the story in the case of Junior's/Lenny's. That's so much more interesting than the yada yada all landlords/all tenants debate. We'll just have to put that particular puzzle together.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 09:00:22 GMT

mar52

mar52

Hope that Lenny's paid Juniors well for that phone number.

I don't see why, Juniors walked away.

Because Junior's said plan was to open elsewhere. The phone number does not belong to the address.

So Juniors knew Lenny's wanted the place and made a deal so Juniors wasn't cheated. If Juniors was going to reopen no way he gives up the number even if it's out of the area.
Unless he was paid more than it was worth now he's like the landlord that wants too much.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (Ice Cream Man)

Sat, 09 Feb 2013 08:53:46 GMT

CCinNJ

All landlords are not stable in ownership. The stakes in the biggest markets are beyond numbers that any individual or small business could ever dream of purchasing...in the current market.
That's why property ownership changes so often. You can look at how many arrests for wire fraud racketeering money laundering bribery ponzi schemes are made in THESE real estate sectors before during or after the fact of flip after flip of large commercial properties....in THESE markets.

It's also a market that's driven by the invest of OPM (other peoples money) into REITs and many of those small individual investors are left with no chair when the music stops playing.

If this was true there would be no corner stores or any small businesses left in LA or NY.
All neighborhoods eventually get redeveloped or rot and fall down, the original owners (Mom & Pop) are the ones that start the cycle by getting more than market value.
In my case I paid 120,000 in 1998, with redevelopment of the area and time it's now worth 500,000, I would take 750,000. The rent would justify the 500,000 but I still want 750,000. If I put a sign out I might get it, the new landlord will have to cover the cost with rent increases. That's business. If the tenants don't like it the new tenants will.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (CCinNJ)

Fri, 08 Feb 2013 22:44:44 GMT

All landlords are not stable in ownership. The stakes in the biggest markets are beyond numbers that any individual or small business could ever dream of purchasing...in the current market.
That's why property ownership changes so often. You can look at how many arrests for wire fraud racketeering money laundering bribery ponzi schemes are made in THESE real estate sectors before during or after the fact of flip after flip of large commercial properties....in THESE markets.

It's also a market that's driven by the invest of OPM (other peoples money) into REITs and many of those small individual investors are left with no chair when the music stops playing.

Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution (mar52)

Fri, 08 Feb 2013 22:31:43 GMT

mar52

Hope that Lenny's paid Juniors well for that phone number.

I don't see why, Juniors walked away.

Because Junior's said plan was to open elsewhere. The phone number does not belong to the address.