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 Fresh Potato French Fries

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DWags541

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  • Location: Eugene, OR
Fresh Potato French Fries Thu, 02/6/14 10:49 PM (permalink)
Hey Guys,
Here is a challenge. I am thinking about making fresh potato fries but under specific conditions. What would you recommend as preparation and cooking methods under these conditions:
-Starting with whole fresh potatoes
-High volume
-No freezer
-Limited to no reefer storage.
 
I know when people do fresh cut fries there are all kinds of prep methods, like par cooking before frying, or double frying at different temps. Of course processed fries are easy, and I have experienced with them, however, they are kept frozen.
I'd be doing this at an event with limited infrastructure that requires an off the grid setup.
What about curly fries? I have seen that done with relatively little extra preparations and the vendors seemingly cutting them and cooking them on the spot. And they sell like crazy.
 
I am open to a variety of styles as long as they are able to be produced under the listed conditions.
 
Thanks for the input.
 
Dave
 
#1
    Foodbme

    • Total Posts: 9575
    • Joined: 9/1/2006
    • Location: Gilbert, AZ
    Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Thu, 02/6/14 11:21 PM (permalink)
    Go to an In N-Out Burger joint and watch how they do it.
     
    #2
      fishscale28

      • Total Posts: 223
      • Joined: 2/21/2013
      • Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
      Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Thu, 02/6/14 11:59 PM (permalink)
      So many people try going the fresh potato fry route and they just mostly miss the mark...they're easy to do but tough to do well.  I wish I had something to offer here but watching pro's like In N Out is a good start
       
      #3
        DWags541

        • Total Posts: 174
        • Joined: 2/25/2012
        • Location: Eugene, OR
        Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 4:18 AM (permalink)
        Just go in the back for a look-see? 
        Thanks, you two. But I am pretty sure In n Out is working with freezers and refrigeration. 
         
        Think concessions style, but off the grid.
         
        #4
          MellowRoast

          • Total Posts: 1935
          • Joined: 8/21/2007
          • Location: 'Nooga
          Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 8:30 AM (permalink)
          To my knowledge, In-N-Out has uses no freezers except for the ice cream freezer.
           
          #5
            pnwchef

            • Total Posts: 2249
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            • Location: Kennewick, WA
            Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 8:38 AM (permalink)

                Nothing to see here, move along........
                
            <message edited by pnwchef on Fri, 02/7/14 8:50 AM>
             
            #6
              pnwchef

              • Total Posts: 2249
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              Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 8:38 AM (permalink)
               From Wikipedia: Logistics is the management of the flow of resources between the point of origin and the point of consumption
               
              A Caterer uses logistics for every function or event. A few things that should be done to get a good end result. 
               
              You could have potato cutters mounted have the cut fries fall into 5 gal buckets. The fries can then be washed to get off some of the starch. In a restaurant setting they would be cut the night before and put in water over night.
              The cut fry needs to be dried and blanched in a 300 degree oil until to 90% cooked. The last cooking is to finish the fries frying at 350 to 375 degrees........
               
              I would look into doing Belgian Fries in cones. The fries would look great, everyone would ask where they got them.
               
              Make the best fries, using the best potatoes, dips, and oil. Your building a business, spend some time how to make it a quality operation.......

               
               
              <message edited by pnwchef on Fri, 02/7/14 8:47 AM>
               
              #7
                tmiles

                • Total Posts: 1910
                • Joined: 10/1/2004
                • Location: Millbury, MA
                Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 9:29 AM (permalink)
                Nobody mentioned potato conditioning. I'm a grower, not a cooker, but I have been at meetings where food science college professors tell how the spud is only the start. Pick the right variety, store it and condition it correctly. When you start to slice, 3/4 of the quality factors have already been set.
                 
                The color of the fry depends a lot on the sugar content of the spud, and the sugar content can vary with storage conditions. I am no pro, as I said, but I seem to remember that a week at about 55 to 60 degrees is good. You can't count on Sysco to do it for you because they sell potatoes for many uses.
                 
                I have not made it there yet, but a place in Portland Maine is said to make perfect fries from hand cut spuds, cooked in duck fat, while you watch. They say that on a summer Saturday, the line can be a half hour long. Folks want to copy them but don't want to do the work.
                 
                And.......fresh potatoes can be WORK. A late friend had a business selling fresh peeled potatoes to independent restaurants. His family didn't want it, and he couldn't sell the business. He offered it to me for free if I'd rent his building. The business paid minimum wage to 5 or 6 people, and he made a little more himself, for working like a dog. He charged more than for a frozen product, and less and less customers saw a reason not to go with frozen from Sysco.
                 
                Partner with a local grower to produce "Bintje" potatoes. They are hard to find here, except at farmer's markets, but are the spud of choice for street vendors in Europe. I remember that in blind fry taste tests, they beat the number 2 and 3 varieties, COMBINED. ( for mashers, a newer variety, Huckleberry Gold, blows away the competition) Bintjes are harder to grow, and yield a little less, but IMO if you try to compete with McDs, you will lose, and if your product can't get folks to pay a premium price, you are screwed.  Look up The Maine Potato Lady, on the web, for lots of info on varieties. She is not as sold on Bintje as some, though. Maybe they don't grow well in Maine.

                I would start by talking to the food science folks at your local Land Grant university.
                <message edited by tmiles on Fri, 02/7/14 11:32 AM>
                 
                #8
                  lleechef

                  • Total Posts: 6253
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                  • Location: Gahanna, OH
                  Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 11:15 AM (permalink)
                  pnwchef


                   From Wikipedia: Logistics is the management of the flow of resources between the point of origin and the point of consumption

                  A Caterer uses logistics for every function or event. A few things that should be done to get a good end result. 

                  You could have potato cutters mounted have the cut fries fall into 5 gal buckets. The fries can then be washed to get off some of the starch. In a restaurant setting they would be cut the night before and put in water over night.
                  The cut fry needs to be dried and blanched in a 300 degree oil until to 90% cooked. The last cooking is to finish the fries frying at 350 to 375 degrees........

                  I would look into doing Belgian Fries in cones. The fries would look great, everyone would ask where they got them.

                  Make the best fries, using the best potatoes, dips, and oil. Your building a business, spend some time how to make it a quality operation.......





                  I couldn't have said it better. 
                   
                  #9
                    edwmax

                    • Total Posts: 2015
                    • Joined: 1/1/2007
                    • Location: Cairo, GA
                    Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 12:38 PM (permalink)
                    Use low moisture content potato. If you can't get these, then age your own using a storage box & dehumidifier.   This link better explains the moisture problem. http://foodserviceblog.idahopotato.com/french-fried-potatoes/
                    I had other links in an old thread about cooking french fries, but these seem to be missing.
                    Anyway, you can cook great golden crisp fries in one single step, but it will take 20 to 25 minutes to do so. (I do it all the time at home) .... This is usually too long for fast service orders.  Thus restaurants use the par-cook 2 step cooking method or frozen per-cooked fries.
                     
                    I think can still do fresh fries by cutting the potato (low moisture) and storing in cold water (minutes to an hour or so) until needed.   Precook for 12 to 15 minutes, then let rest.  Then finish per order.    You will have to work out your own timing.
                     
                     
                    #10
                      Dr of BBQ

                      • Total Posts: 3716
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                      Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 2:45 PM (permalink)
                      pnwchef
                          Nothing to see here, move along........

                       
                      LMAO your a richard funny.
                       
                      #11
                        Dr of BBQ

                        • Total Posts: 3716
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                        • Location: Springfield, IL
                        • Roadfood Insider
                        Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 2:49 PM (permalink)
                        There are people that do fries straight out of the cutter and have success with them. And  I'm not being a richard here but it seems to me a couple of the past forum members gave a pretty good how to in previous post. Try a search at the top of the page search (fresh cut fries) and I'll bet you'll find those post.
                        Good Luck
                        Jack
                          Nothing to see here, move along........ still laughing
                         
                        #12
                          Foodbme

                          • Total Posts: 9575
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                          • Location: Gilbert, AZ
                          Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 3:51 PM (permalink)
                          DWags541

                          Just go in the back for a look-see? 
                          Thanks, you two. But I am pretty sure In n Out is working with freezers and refrigeration. 
                          Think concessions style, but off the grid.

                          You don't need to go in the back. Most of the operation is visible in the stores I've been in.
                          They may have refrigerators to keep stuff cold, but none of the products coming in are frozen.
                           
                          #13
                            boyardee65

                            • Total Posts: 1457
                            • Joined: 8/28/2005
                            • Location: Surprise, AZ
                            Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 4:04 PM (permalink)
                            This is how we do it. Punch out fries, soak three times for 15 minutes on fresh water. Drain well, fry at 350 degrees for 3 minutes. Cool the fries in the frige and then cook to order for 4 minutes at 350. Perfect fries every time. About a 24 hour holding time in the frige, and 4 minutes after being cooked for service.
                             
                             
                            #14
                              Dr of BBQ

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                              Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 4:29 PM (permalink)
                              Dave,
                              According to the above post your not going to sell fresh cut fries. Not one of the suggested procedures could be pulled off in a trailer or truck there just isn't enough room for all that storage both before and after cutting. I still say there was a vendor here that did them in some old threads and claimed he sold a lot of fries.
                               
                              read this:
                              http://foodserviceblog.id...ly-after-cutting-them/
                               
                              #15
                                DWags541

                                • Total Posts: 174
                                • Joined: 2/25/2012
                                • Location: Eugene, OR
                                Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 5:10 PM (permalink)
                                Dr.,
                                These are similar challenges I would be dealing with. It is not clear if In n Out double fries, but there seems to be a consensus that double frying is the best method for best inner texture and outer crisp while avoiding the frozen commercial brands, and in this case, the logistical issues that come along with not having freezers & excessive refrigerator/cooling space. Seems like the challenge would be how to best store the 1st fried fries.
                                In my experience observing curly fry vendors, it seems there is no 2 stage cooking going on. I wonder if curly fries are different in that they are sliced much thinner so they cook thoroughly, crispier, and more quickly than a thick julienne cut fry.
                                 
                                 
                                #16
                                  edwmax

                                  • Total Posts: 2015
                                  • Joined: 1/1/2007
                                  • Location: Cairo, GA
                                  Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 5:41 PM (permalink)
                                   
                                  #17
                                    BelCibo

                                    • Total Posts: 155
                                    • Joined: 11/20/2012
                                    • Location: Marsing, ID
                                    Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 5:45 PM (permalink)
                                    DWags541


                                    ... the logistical issues that come along with not having freezers & excessive refrigerator/cooling space. Seems like the challenge would be how to best store the 1st fried fries...


                                     
                                    You may already know this but...
                                    After the first fry they would need to be time or temperature controlled.
                                    In our area, you would have four hours between the first and second fry if you used time as a control method.  That would be long enough for lunch or evening services.
                                     
                                    #18
                                      edwmax

                                      • Total Posts: 2015
                                      • Joined: 1/1/2007
                                      • Location: Cairo, GA
                                      Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 7:04 PM (permalink)
                                      DWags541


                                        ...
                                      In my experience observing curly fry vendors, it seems there is no 2 stage cooking going on. I wonder if curly fries are different in that they are sliced much thinner so they cook thoroughly, crispier, and more quickly than a thick julienne cut fry.


                                       
                                      Cooking the fries is about removing the moisture.   The fast bubbling of the cooking oil at frying temp is caused by water evaporating out of the fries. If the fry starts browning while the bubbling is still fast, then the oil temperature is too hot. The fry will have a crisp outside and soggy center & maybe too dark  ... thus soggy fries 2 or 3 min after being taken out of the fryer.
                                       
                                      In a single batch fry, cook the fries at a lower temp until there is very few water bubbles in the oil and no or little browning of the fry.  Then increase the oil temp to crisp & brown.   ... about 20 to 25 min ...
                                       
                                      The 2 step blanching process is simple. Bring the fries up to temp in hot oil for 2 to 4 min. Then remove the fries to a pan to rest (may be under a heat lamp).  The hot fries will continue to steam off the internal water.  Then finish frying 3 to 4 mins until crisp and golden.   Now, the total frying time in the hot oil is may be about 8 mins (4 min to blanch + 4 min to finsh). BUT, the resting period while the excess moisture steams off is an hour or so. Total time start to finish, an hour or more.
                                       
                                      Frozen french fries:  These are blanched 40 to 60 seconds in hot water (may be hot oil if partial cooked).  Then they are Freeze DRIED to remove the excess water.
                                       
                                      Yes the size of fries does have an effect on how fast they will cook.   Larger fries need to cook a little slower to remove the excess water.  Shoestring and curly fries will give up their moisture faster and the oil temp will drop more.  So these are usually cooked with hotter oil with bigger burners.
                                       
                                      So the more you can reduce the moisture of the potato or buy low moisture potatoes will save cooking time and increase the life of the cooking oil & number of pounds of potatoes the oil can be used.
                                       
                                      #19
                                        Dr of BBQ

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                                        Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/7/14 7:14 PM (permalink)
                                        DWags541


                                        Dr.,
                                        These are similar challenges I would be dealing with. It is not clear if In n Out double fries, but there seems to be a consensus that double frying is the best method for best inner texture and outer crisp while avoiding the frozen commercial brands, and in this case, the logistical issues that come along with not having freezers & excessive refrigerator/cooling space. Seems like the challenge would be how to best store the 1st fried fries.
                                        In my experience observing curly fry vendors, it seems there is no 2 stage cooking going on. I wonder if curly fries are different in that they are sliced much thinner so they cook thoroughly, crispier, and more quickly than a thick julienne cut fry.

                                         
                                        Yes I think your correct (sliced much thinner so they cook thoroughly, crispier, faster) and I can understand how vendors could get by doing that. But you add another step to the process in making them each and everyone. So if I were going in that direction I'd spend the big $$ and get one of the good machines that knocks them out pretty quickly. Buy one like this
                                        http://www.webstaurantsto...155150BC%20%20120.html
                                         
                                        Wow I just went back and was reading about the above cutter, check this out:
                                        The Nemco N55150B-C PowerKut table mount curly fry cutter can process up to a 60 count potato in 5 seconds and mounts to any table top.
                                        <message edited by Dr of BBQ on Fri, 02/7/14 7:27 PM>
                                         
                                        #20
                                          DWags541

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                                          Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Sat, 02/8/14 11:44 PM (permalink)
                                          https://drive.google.com/...XdHFR/edit?usp=sharing

                                          Experimenting over the last few days. I've been using the 2-fry method. First wave (no pics) was a lower temp initial fry, like 250, and 350-375 finish time, about 5 mins each time.
                                           
                                          Today, I did 325 for 5 mins initial fry time, and second fry 365-375 (Likely on the lower side of that. Tested w a thermometer and seems like the test fryer I have doesn't quite get up to 375) for 3 mins.
                                           
                                          I used Yukon Gold today. The first test was more like a smaller baking potato, not quite sure of the variety. I also cut these potatoes today using a mandolin, which yielded an approximate 1/4" fry (I believe).
                                           
                                          Pretty happy w the results.
                                          Light washing in cold water after cutting. Just enough rest after first cook to get through 3 small batches.
                                           
                                          <message edited by DWags541 on Sat, 02/8/14 11:46 PM>
                                           
                                          #21
                                            chefbuba

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                                            Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Sun, 02/9/14 1:40 AM (permalink)
                                            I use a #2 Russet, cut on the mandolin. Let soak in cold water for about 30 min, rinse, drop in colander to drain. !st fry at 300* until they pass the soggy stage to just starting to firm up, but no color.
                                            Let cool, 2nd fry at 350 until crisp and brown.
                                            Some potatoes will never crisp and will brown quickly, all depends on the sugar/starch content which you can't control.
                                             
                                            #22
                                              hella good tacos

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                                              Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Mon, 02/17/14 3:04 PM (permalink)
                                              If you are just doing fries and cut them the night beofre you could store them in ice chests in water and ice.  Thus mainitaing your necessary temps (42 or under) and getting the wash you need.  a separate ice chest for ice and a probe thermometer would allow you to maintain your temps by adding ice as needed (my probe thermometer has an alarm to let me know when a specific temp is reached.  So long as the ice chest is clean, kept cold, and all you are storing are cut potatoes in ice and water you should not violate any health codes
                                               
                                              perhaps cutting, soaking early the day before and then transfering to fresh ice water for the event will be best. in terms of washing excess starch off.
                                               
                                              Aside from what all the others have suggested i REALLY think the proper fat/oil is essential to a qaulity fry.
                                               
                                              If you can't splurge on duck fat at least roll with peanut oil.  The cleaner tasting and higher smoke point the oil has the better the fries will taste.  soy oil may be a good 3rd choice but stay away from vegetable, canola or blended veg oils.  

                                              Also a smart thing would be to invest in quality salts... some coarse sea or kosher salt can be purchased at reasonable price in quantity.  This would really help to make your fries stand out from typical carnie fare. 
                                              <message edited by hella good tacos on Mon, 02/17/14 3:06 PM>
                                               
                                              #23
                                                DWags541

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                                                Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Mon, 02/17/14 5:58 PM (permalink)
                                                Thanks for the tips. I think what you describe, HGT, is the best method.
                                                 
                                                I am curious how rinsing or prolonged soaking of cut fries translates to cooking variation. Seems like from what I've read, soaking is common, but it is to wash out some starch. However, it seems that excessive water and/or sugar content is what varies the fry experience. But maybe its just a couple of many factors.
                                                I was just thinking about how cutting potatoes closer to cook time (minimal soaking/washing of cut raw fries) might affect the cook.
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  edwmax

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                                                  Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Mon, 02/17/14 6:42 PM (permalink)
                                                  DWags541

                                                  ...
                                                  I am curious how rinsing or prolonged soaking of cut fries translates to cooking variation. Seems like from what I've read, soaking is common, but it is to wash out some starch. However, it seems that excessive water and/or sugar content is what varies the fry experience. But maybe its just a couple of many factors.
                                                  ....

                                                   
                                                  The potatoes from a grocery store are high moisture potatoes, since water loss would represent lost profit (sold by the lb).  These potatoes are stored at a temperature & humidity to minimize moisture loss until sold to the consumer.    ... The general public buying potatoes wouldn't know the difference between high moisture & low moisture potatoes.  ... Low moisture potato would generally be a premium priced potato for specialty buyers.
                                                   
                                                  With the high moisture potato, soaking would make little or no difference in the moisture content.  But, is an excellent way to keep the fresh cut potato from turning brown and to remove starch until used.
                                                  <message edited by edwmax on Mon, 02/17/14 6:45 PM>
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    hella good tacos

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                                                    Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Mon, 02/17/14 10:32 PM (permalink)
                                                    One other suggestion i might make is to stick with the mealy (high Starch) potatoes.

                                                    Yukon golds are medium starch and i would think the inner texture wouldn't be the same as your standard baker/russet.

                                                    also my suggestion on cutting and storing was based on a single person work station.  Whatever time you can save yourself will yield more sales per day.
                                                    <message edited by hella good tacos on Mon, 02/17/14 10:33 PM>
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      DWags541

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                                                      Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Tue, 02/18/14 2:33 PM (permalink)
                                                      My latest methods are:
                                                      Russets, cut and rinsed. No long soak (to date).
                                                      1st fry 325 for 3 mins
                                                      2nd fry 375 for 2.5 mins
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        edwmax

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                                                        Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Wed, 02/19/14 7:25 AM (permalink)
                                                        DWags541


                                                        My latest methods are:
                                                        Russets, cut and rinsed. No long soak (to date).
                                                        1st fry 325 for 3 mins
                                                        2nd fry 375 for 2.5 mins

                                                         
                                                        How do you handle the potatoes between fries?    How long does the potato need to rest before frying the 2nd time?
                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          DWags541

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                                                          Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Wed, 02/19/14 5:09 PM (permalink)
                                                          I let the fries rest a while.
                                                          I think in larger quantities, I would spread out fries in a full size hotel pan to cool then put in a bin to bring down to food safe temps for longer storage.
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            ZD

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                                                            Re:Fresh Potato French Fries Fri, 02/21/14 6:58 PM (permalink)
                                                            We have a French fry concession business,we cut as needed only (do not cut more than needed)manual cutter 3/8 in can cut 50-70 lbs per hour easily , pre cook at 350,let rest up to 1/2 hr finish cooking at 350. One temp makes it easier for cooking other items. As for potatoes check with local snack food makers or restaurant food suppliers for frying potatoes. They will be either Atlantics or Snowdens, varieties grown just for frying. Chip, fries or homefries. Storage is important above 50 degrees and below 70 we used storage in our home when temps outside we're not ok. Soaking after cutting not necessary nor fridge after precook.
                                                             
                                                            #30
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